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Thread: Joyce Meyer - Theology Concerns?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Point 3 ...Jesus didn't pay for our sins in hell

    We Celebrate communion of the body and blood for our redemption we don't celebrate a mystical Jesus' spirit in hell as part of our salvation

    Its a false teaching but you don't lose your salvation over it
    The apostles' creed :

    I believe in God, the Father almighty,
    creator of heaven and earth.
    I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
    who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
    born of the Virgin Mary,
    suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died, and was buried;
    he descended to the dead.
    On the third day he rose again;
    he ascended into heaven,
    he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
    and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
    I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the holy catholic Church,
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body,
    and the life everlasting. Amen.

    Greek "descended to the lower parts". It's sometimes translated simply as "hell". Which makes sense even if the Greek term Hades isn't the one used.

    The mystical part in the communion involves what it means that Jesus' body was broken and his blood (in which the soul is) was poured out. And in which way we parttake in all of that.

  2. #22
    This is what happens when people take their theology from a denominational construct. If Hank makes it to Heaven I hope I am right next door to him.

  3. #23
    You will find him in the Greek Orthodox Block :)

  4. #24
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Most of these Hank has attacked for many years....Joyce is not the first to present these beliefs...we have had some interesting lively debates on some of them here on the forum....probably all of them at some point or another..

    I disagree with #1...because I see that Jesus chose to humble Himself...He was never not The Son of God...but he WAS a Son who did not avail Himself of that privilege. What made Him the Son of God was His supernatural birth....born of the Spirit and an earthly mother...

  5. #25
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    No way she said 5. Nobody that believes that Jesus suffered in hell says that. I've never heard that in all my 41 years.
    I agree...the funny thing is when I first heard it taught of going into Hell for my sin it did not seem a 'new thing' to me. Born again in a Baptist church I embraced He paid the price for my sin and it never occurred to me that the price was physical death on a cross...so when I first heard how contested this concept was, I was, quite frankly, dismayed.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Most of these Hank has attacked for many years....Joyce is not the first to present these beliefs...we have had some interesting lively debates on some of them here on the forum....probably all of them at some point or another..

    I disagree with #1...because I see that Jesus chose to humble Himself...He was never not The Son of God...but he WAS a Son who did not avail Himself of that privilege. What made Him the Son of God was His supernatural birth....born of the Spirit and an earthly mother...
    How could JM have better said it? It gets back to the concept of what "becoming sin" meant. Losing fellowship with the Father makes sense.

    It's harder to accept the idea that Jesus Godhead evacuated because the sin qualities cannot be there together (though I get the logic of it). Causes more problems concerning the integrity of the Godhead.

  7. #27
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    How could JM have better said it? It gets back to the concept of what "becoming sin" meant. Losing fellowship with the Father makes sense.

    It's harder to accept the idea that Jesus Godhead evacuated because the sin qualities cannot be there together (though I get the logic of it). Causes more problems concerning the integrity of the Godhead.
    Good question...how did Jesus 'lose fellowship' and retain diety? First, He did not lose fellowship, He surrendered it into the hands of the righteous judge. IMHO the idea that He lost diety, ceased to be the Son of God is the point of division....I, on the other hand, have no problem believing Jesus both surrendered fellowship temporarily but did Not cease to be the Son of God. He merely became the sinless lamb who embraced our sin punishment...Does became sin for us translate 'became a sinner'?

    I have never had a spiritual crisis over embracing both concepts.....and the point of division may actually be moot?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Most of these Hank has attacked for many years....Joyce is not the first to present these beliefs...we have had some interesting lively debates on some of them here on the forum....probably all of them at some point or another..

    I disagree with #1...because I see that Jesus chose to humble Himself...He was never not The Son of God...but he WAS a Son who did not avail Himself of that privilege. What made Him the Son of God was His supernatural birth....born of the Spirit and an earthly mother...
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Good question...how did Jesus 'lose fellowship' and retain diety? First, He did not lose fellowship, He surrendered it into the hands of the righteous judge. IMHO the idea that He lost diety, ceased to be the Son of God is the point of division....I, on the other hand, have no problem believing Jesus both surrendered fellowship temporarily but did Not cease to be the Son of God. He merely became the sinless lamb who embraced our sin punishment...Does became sin for us translate 'became a sinner'?

    I have never had a spiritual crisis over embracing both concepts.....and the point of division may actually be moot?
    Hmmm,,
    What would the "forsaken me" part mean, then?

  9. #29
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    Hmmm,,
    What would the "forsaken me" part mean, then?
    That God treated him as if he were sin even though he was still sinless. His nature didn't change, only his circumstances.

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  11. #30
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    Hmmm,,
    What would the "forsaken me" part mean, then?
    Perhaps the answer is within the TRINITY? God the FATHER seperated HIMSELF from His Son briefly...the SON embracing fully the sin penalty...trusting the righteous JUDGE with the outcome of the seperation....

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