Yeah, let's ignore Psalm 18 and 116 and pretend that Psalm 88 is the only one being discussed.Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33
Yeah, let's ignore Psalm 18 and 116 and pretend that Psalm 88 is the only one being discussed.
As if "3 days" is the only point of comparison.
That's your opinion on that matter.
Colonel
Your use of scripture is not proper exegesis and you make verses which are not Messianic as being Messianic to justify your views.
The biggest law of interpretation you break is to make OT scripture which is shadow as the foundation of doctrine while ignoring the actual reality of what the NT states.
The foundation of doctrine must begin with the revealed will of God in what Jesus went through as recorded in the NT and the OT scriptures should submit to those verses.
You are doing the opposite by taking OT scripture and making them above the NT and forcing a faulty analysis.
I disagree with every last word of what you just said.
So you think this is actually a Messianic passage of scripture?
“Out of the belly of Sheol I cried,
And You heard my voice.
3
For You cast me into the deep,
Into the heart of the seas,
And the floods surrounded me;
All Your billows and Your waves passed over me.
4
Then I said, ‘I have been cast out of Your sight;
Yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.’
5
The waters surrounded me, even to my soul;
The deep closed around me;
Weeds were wrapped around my head.
6
I went down to the [a]moorings of the mountains;
The earth with its bars closed behind me forever;
Yet You have brought up my life from the pit,
O Lord, my God.
7
“When my soul fainted within me,
I remembered the Lord;
And my prayer went up to You,
Into Your holy temple.
8
“Those who regard worthless idols
Forsake their own [b]Mercy.
9
But I will sacrifice to You
With the voice of thanksgiving;
I will pay what I have vowed.
Salvation is of the Lord.”
According to Jesus, that is exactly the point He was making:The whole point Jesus was making was that He was going to be in the heart of the earth for 3 days.Matthew 12:39-41 New King James Version (NKJV)
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
Cardinal TT (12-07-2018)
Okay so the Greek words aren't the same. The difference from some of the Messianic psalms is that Jonah isn't describing a normal situation like war, treason etc. He's describing a situation that is highly miraculous. First in that the whale bothers to swallow him at all. Second in that Jonah remains alive at all in its belly, in fact for three days and three nights. Then that the whale bothers to vomit him up, then that it vomits him up onto dry land - meaning that Jonah returns to the land of the living again. To add to that, the reason why the sea farers throw him into the sea to begin with is because he's supposed to still the storm by appeasing the god(s) that are angry. Thereby saving them all, except himself.
The whole ordeal is totally Messianic in nature. To add to that, the description that Jonah gives of his experience inside the belly of the whale doesn't fit what a person would experience if he had been trapped inside the belly of the whale just with air to breathe through a hose or something. It fits some person's experience of being a soul trapped in Hades far better.
Cardinal TT will have us believe that Jonah chapter 2 can be ignored as Messianic because the exact same content isn't also found elsewhere in the New Testament and that is ridiculous. The whole purpose to Jesus referencing Jonah 2 by referring to the belly of the whale is so that we might look that up and read that in light of what he said and therefore it would be redundant to state the same again either in the same passage (Mat 12) or in some other passage in the NT. The same thing can be said about the other Messianic OT references made. To Psalm 18 and 116 by Peter, to Isaiah 53 and other chapters in the same book and so on. Just because the psalms or passages in question aren't quoted exhaustively in the NT doesn't mean that we have a right to ignore everything except the exact quote involved. What would that do to Isaiah 53 ? Noone except non-Christian Jews demands that the bulk of Isaiah 53 should be ignored as Messianic in content just because the entire chapter isn't quoted in the NT.
I mentioned Isaiah 53 previously, here's another Messianic psalm that's similar to psalm 88:8 :
Psalm 69:7 Because for Your sake I have borne reproach;
Shame has covered my face.
8 I have become a stranger to my brothers,
And an alien to my mother’s children;
9 Because zeal for Your house has eaten me up,
And the reproaches of those who reproach You have fallen on me.
Verse 9 is referenced twice in the context of Jesus in the NT.
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