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Thread: "We could have had different parents??" Can someone explain what the Colonel's saying?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I had difficulty finding a mention of Pentecostal/Charismatic beliefs about this. The one Quest presents is called Traducianism and is discussed here :

    http://broom02.revolvy.com/main/inde...tem_type=topic

    "The*Charismatic Movement*also generally supports the idea that the Holy Spirit is creator of every individual soul, citing the traditional hymn*Veni Creator Spiritus*as evidence that Christians have long invoked the divine soul-making properties of the Spirit."

    Meaning they believe what I believe, which is called "soul creationism".

    If someone can find evidence of Pentecostal/Charismatic denominations holding to Traducianism, then please post it.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    I have heard this taught but do not see it...as I believe as eternal spirit beings we procreate both physically and spiritually...
    That is why I also believe a new spirit being is procreated at conception.
    Two born again Christians with regenerated spirits that are one with the Holy Spirit procreate, what is the spiritual state of the newly conceived child ?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I've dealt with trolls many times on a Norwegian workout forum that I frequented for years. Some were sociopats, some probably belonged at a psychiatric ward somewhere. Some weren't really trolls, just their behavior or at least their posting style suggested that they could be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    FunOz

    I think Colonel believes that even though humans make children physically God personally and literally sends a spirit to every conceived human in the womb.

    So from his perspective it doesn't matter who your natural parents are...your spirit is sent from God whether Adam sinned or not.
    Thanks TT.

    Colonel if you'd just said that I wouldn't have had to ask you so many time what you were talking about.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Two born again Christians with regenerated spirits that are one with the Holy Spirit procreate, what is the spiritual state of the newly conceived child ?
    Spiritually dead. You have to be born again to be saved.

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  6. #25
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    My current belief is that God personally does not create the human spirit of every conceived child.

    I believe he gave man that responsibility UNDER the blessings of marriage....to create a new physical and spiritual person. That is why marriage is so sacred and the creation of children so special and unique in God's eyes.

    From a human reason pov....a rapist rapes a 11 year old girl and somehow God has to create and send a spirit into the baby conceived by rape is far fetched in my view

    It is more biblically consistent to say that God gave humans that ability and authority but due to sin, man has stuffed it up like he has done with many other areas where God gave him dominion

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  8. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    My current belief is that God personally does not create the human spirit of every conceived child.
    Well like evolution there nothing in the Bible to suggest such a thing so the idea comes from outside the Bible (wonder where from?) but then people will try find verses to justify their holding of the idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    From a human reason pov....a rapist rapes a 11 year old girl and somehow God has to create and send a spirit into the baby conceived by rape is far fetched in my view
    And what about people going to hell? God knows what going to happen in the future so "In you go, car accident while drunk in 27 year the off to hell, see ya". (bit of scarcism there).

  9. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Back to the discussion.
    Well I can start it now, now that I know what we're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    The Hebrew word is Nephesh which means soul. Does that apply only to Adam ? Nope.

    Job 33:4 (Elihu) The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

    Eccl 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
    And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

    To my knowledge there is no verse in the Bible that says that God had to give your human spirit to the fetus that was formed in your mother's womb and that he couldn't have given it to an other fetus in an other womb. Care to find that verse FunFromOz ?
    First things first:

    Where are God the Father and Jesus? We have 12 verses that specifically tell us that that are in heaven with Jesus seated at God's right hand, see these 12 verses.

    So what are they doing there?

    Well according to what you've said above they're actively keeping track of 8,000,000,000 people noteing the 1,000,000 or so acts of sexual intercourse going on at any one time1 to catch the four a second that result in conception and to instantly create a spirit and add it to the mix (oh and these days they have to keep an eye on IVF clinics as well). Busy boys.

    And doesn't this throw your salvation theology into a mess? According to your theory God could have given your spirit to a fetus of a person that he knew would have gone to hell.

    1Rough guess at this number.

  10. #28
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Two born again Christians with regenerated spirits that are one with the Holy Spirit procreate, what is the spiritual state of the newly conceived child ?
    Innocent. Not spiritually dead.

  11. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The verses are right there so please ignore them.

    Your verses aren't anywhere so please assume them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    You really have been taking lessons from FT..
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Not any more than you have taken lessons in ignoring verses quoted and quoting none of your own, from FT.

    But I'll plead guilty of using sarcasm. Sorry if you disliked it.
    "... whatever ..." (quoting 148 Bible verses from the following books, Genesis, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Judges, Ruth, 1Samuel, 2Samuel, 1Kings, 2Kings, 2Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Job, Psalms, Ecclesisates, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Nahum, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1Corinthians, 2Corinthians, Galations, Ephesians, Phillipians, Colossians, 1Timothy, Hebrews, 1John, 3John).

    Support from 36 of the 66 books in the Bible is pretty conclusive I think.

  12. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Innocent. Not spiritually dead.
    "We could have had different parents??"  Can someone explain what the Colonel's saying?-capture-jpg

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