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Thread: Does God have a PROPER name?

  1. #61
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I know that Jesus didn't speak Greek to his audiences. Luke translated whatever Jesus said into Greek and chose the Greek word kyrios which he shouldn't have done if the exact name for God in Hebrew was very important.
    Aren't you assuming that?

    The Oldest fragment of Luke?

    http://www.historyofinformation.com/...ed.php?id=3058

    Look closely...

    Luke 4:15-21New International Version (NIV)

    15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.

    16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:


    18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
    because he has anointed me
    to proclaim good news to the poor.
    He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
    and recovery of sight for the blind,
    to set the oppressed free,
    19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

    20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

    The translators indicate this was a direct quote...I find it hard to accept that Luke would presume to rate any portion of a quote insignificant..especially the name of God..

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  3. #62
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  5. #63
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    The very fact that he uses the generic term Kyrios proves that he didn't think it important.

    According to your thinking he shouldn't. But he did. Now deal with that fact.

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    Isaiah 61:1 American Standard
    The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening [of the prison] to them that are bound;

    ***several translations insert Jehovah or Lord God and ESV says the Lord GOD. Others say Sovereign Lord
    ***the Hebrew Names Version says the Lord GOD because the LORD
    ***Lexham English Bible says the Lord Yahwey

    Edited...wrong conclusion deleted..

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  9. #65
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    The Greek has kyrios so I would like to know where you are getting that from.

    http://www.biblestudytools.com/inter...uke+4:18&t=kjv

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The Greek has kyrios so I would like to know where you are getting that from.

    http://www.biblestudytools.com/inter...uke+4:18&t=kjv
    http://www.biblestudytools.com/isaiah/61-1-compare.html

    Sorry...that was Isaiah, not Luke...

    So back to square one...a name sued thousands of times in the OT suddenly just disappeared from the NT which was written totally by JEWS who heard or read the scrolls every Sabbath...the NAME of the Almighty creator suddenly became unimportant..irrelevant..so irrelevant that even LUKE altered a direct quote to insert an generic title...interesting...

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  13. #67
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    What gives you the right to assume that Luke wrote something else than what all the manuscripts actually say ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    What gives you the right to assume that Luke wrote something else than what all the manuscripts actually say ?
    I am not assuming anything...the translators say this passage Jesus stood and read Isaiah and that He read the passage from Isaiah 61 AND inserted it within quotes..so either JESUS altered that passage himself and that QUOTE is wrong or Luke altered Jesus' quote...

    I did not put the quotes there..they did. And yet the passage is significantly altered from it's original Hebrew...so SOMEBODY quoted something incorrectly it would SEEM...

    What other explanation would there be?

    It seems highly unlikely to me that Jesus was reading Isaiah 61 from a GREEK translation in the Jewish Temple on the Sabbath...

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Let's say Jesus read from Isaiah in Hebrew and not in Arameic (I'm not sure, maybe that is what they did). He used a specific Hebrew term for God. Then Luke translates that into Greek, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

    Now, if your theory is correct - that says that the precise meaning of that Hebrew term for God is very important - then Luke should have used a precise term in Greek or an elaboration of what the Hebrew term means.

    Fact is, he did not do that. Which proves that your theory is incorrect.

    That is, if you care about any kind of evidence that goes against your theory. Like at all.

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  19. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Let's say Jesus read from Isaiah in Hebrew and not in Arameic (I'm not sure, maybe that is what they did). He used a specific Hebrew term for God. Then Luke translates that into Greek, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

    Now, if your theory is correct - that says that the precise meaning of that Hebrew term for God is very important - then Luke should have used a precise term in Greek or an elaboration of what the Hebrew term means.

    Fact is, he did not do that. Which proves that your theory is incorrect.

    That is, if you care about any kind of evidence that goes against your theory. Like at all.
    I actually don't believe the problem was with Jesus' reading or Luke's inspired writing...if there was a problem it would most likely rest with the earliest transcription ..I don't lean toward believing Jesus was afraid to say His Father's name..

    I found an article that has a hypothesis on this and will come post it later...

    I am investigating..I don't take traditions at face value...what EVIDENCE have you presented?

    Have you seen Luke's original writing? No..neither had any of the current translations translators...

    So I am asking practical questions based on logic and reason...and investigating...you seem to be restating a position.

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