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Thread: This is about Responsibility.

  1. #1

    This is about Responsibility.

    James 1:4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.


  2. #2
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    James 1:4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

    Love Jordan Peterson. He seems to finally be on the other side of a battle for his life after inadvertently getting addicted to a very powerful drug he was prescribed. He and his daughter are now trying to enlighten people on that drug. Can't remember the name right of the bat. Liberals really released their vitriol against him when it happened because he's a conservative, as opposed to say how they embrace movie stars that are addicted to street drugs and fully support them in overcoming their habit. The common liberal hypocrisy and double standard.

    John MacArther mentions making sinners 'victims'. We do that when we preach original sin and that sinners have no control over their own sin. Of course that's an entirely different subject. And MacArther basically contradicts his theology by saying that. You can't preach that we're predestined to heaven or hell, or in other words predestined to be a saint or sinner and then make the sinner responsible for what he does. That very doctrine makes the sinner a 'victim'. A victim of God's will.

    And if one isn't a calvinist, and still teaches original sin, you've still made the sinner a victim that should rather be pitied than held responsible for his sin, since he didn't have anything to do with becoming a 'sinner' in the first place and was 'born that way'. The very same reason we argue against about homosexuals NOT 'being born that way' because we know that then it makes them not responsible for who they are. Homosexuality is a choice, sin and becoming a sinner is a choice.

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  4. #3
    It seems that you don't yet understand Reformed Theology fuego.

    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    John MacArther mentions making sinners 'victims'. We do that when we preach original sin and that sinners have no control over their own sin.
    Who does that? Who says that sinners have no control over their own sins? I sin, you sin, we all sin, because we want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    And MacArther basically contradicts his theology by saying that. You can't preach that we're predestined to heaven or hell, or in other words predestined to be a saint or sinner and then make the sinner responsible for what he does. That very doctrine makes the sinner a 'victim'. A victim of God's will.
    Not at all. I've put some video links below where this is explained. (From the Twin Truths video is a link to the text of the video for those who read fast or prefer to skim).

    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    And if one isn't a calvinist, and still teaches original sin, you've still made the sinner a victim that should rather be pitied than held responsible for his sin, since he didn't have anything to do with becoming a 'sinner' in the first place and was 'born that way'.
    Having been born a sinner does not give you any excuse for sinning. You're inclined to sin, but at the same time you're told not to. It's your responsibility to obey God, and if you don't it's your choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    The very same reason we argue against about homosexuals NOT 'being born that way' because we know that then it makes them not responsible for who they are. Homosexuality is a choice, sin and becoming a sinner is a choice.
    Homosexuality is a sin they choose to commit.

    Love this:


    but I digressed.





    The first 5 mins of this are enlightening


  5. #4
    This wouldn't fit in the previous post but comes from the Twin Truths video. The full text is at https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/43-15 (I've put in blank space for ease of reading).

    So how are we to understand these things? Well, we're going to get into the text and I'm going to show you the condition of unbelief, the commendation of belief, and the condemnation of unbelief, but we'll leave that for next time. I want to talk about this particular issue 'cause, as I said, if I don't,

    in every verse you're going to have this dilemma in your mind about how does this work?

    How could we be saying these things about you must believe, if you believe you can be saved, and make that square with what we already know about divine sovereignty in salvation.

    How do those things come together?

    They don't.

    I say it again, they are parallel truths, they are both true.

    I've been around a long time and I have seen every imaginable, every conceivable effort to harmonize those things done by people, well-intentioned people, very gifted people, well-known preachers, theologians, writers, commentators who tried to harmonize it.

    Anybody whoever tries to harmonize those two things destroys one or the other of them, or both of them. You can't change them, you can't tamper with them. You must be content to believe them both.


    Now how can I help you to deal with that?
    I can't harmonize it.
    I can't bring it all together.
    I can't solve your dilemma.
    I can't answer the apparent paradox.
    So what am I left with?

    I want to make you comfortable with your inability not to get it. Okay?
    That's my objective, okay?
    I just want you to be completely happy that you don't get it. Okay?
    Just put you to rest, stop fighting that. That's where we're going today.
    I want you to be comfortable with the fact that, wow, you just might not understand something. I know that's a big pill to swallow because of human pride, but get over it and be content not to get it.

    Now I want you to understand that when the Bible deals with these things, it doesn't explain itself.
    It isn't self-conscious.
    You don't read—I know this is really tough to get—you don't have caveats like that.
    You don't have underlying statements.
    You don't have efforts to make explanations.

    These things are stated in Scripture as parallel realities and never really explained or harmonized because they both exist. And the fact that we can't understand them leaves us with one option, and that is to believe them both and be content with that. (Emphasis mine).

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