Thread: Does God Predestine Everything?

Originally Posted by Colonel

God will show mercy to him who lets himself be born again, not to him who strives to be good enough. Romans 9 is pure gospel.

And there I thought Paul said:

So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth."18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

And there I thought Paul said:

[FONT="]So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth."[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT]18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

What is the difference ?

Originally Posted by Colonel

What is the difference ?

Well I see a difference between:

- God will show mercy to him who lets himself be born again, and
- He has mercy on whom He desires

the difference being exactly who decided that mercy will be granted.

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Well I see a difference between:

- God will show mercy to him who lets himself be born again, and
- He has mercy on whom He desires

the difference being exactly who decided that mercy will be granted.

He has mercy on the one who is born again, that is his desire. You don't like it but it's God's choice and not yours, you know.

Originally Posted by Colonel

He has mercy on the one who is born again, that is his desire. You don't like it but it's God's choice and not yours, you know.

And there I thought we were born again because God showed us mercy (So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy). We're 100% opposite on this one ain't we?

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

And there I thought we were born again because God showed us mercy (So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy). We're 100% opposite on this one ain't we?

I cannot make myself born again by willing it, nor by running for it. There is nothing I can do to make myself born again. It depends completely on God who shows mercy by allowing anyone to be born again. But he only has mercy, in the final judgment sense, on those who do let themselves be born again.

The one who is born again is elect in Christ, the election depends solely on Christ and not at all on the individual, who is nonelect because of sin. If Christ is found in someone, then that someone is elect. It doesn't matter who it is.

Originally Posted by Colonel

I cannot make myself born again by willing it, nor by running for it. There is nothing I can do to make myself born again. It depends completely on God who shows mercy by allowing anyone to be born again.

Is God obligated to save anyone?

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

Is God obligated to save anyone?

Nope. But he has made it possible for anyone to be saved, in the foundational sense, through the atonement. Specifics like "they died before Christ arrived" and stuff like that complicate the matter but that is a different topic.

Originally Posted by Colonel

Nope. But he has made it possible for anyone to be saved, in the foundational sense, through the atonement. Specifics like "they died before Christ arrived" and stuff like that complicate the matter but that is a different topic.

I was just watching an episode on Romans by a guy called Tommy Nelson (some spinets and full videos can be found here tommy nelson romans - YouTube).

One of the things he noted while discussing Romans 10, and perhaps they're unrelated, is that with the Puritans their doctrine of salvation was God's election. However as the country became more "democratic", with people now having more choice in Government, so too the doctrine of salvation moved towards man having a choice. He also noted that "now" (now being maybe a decade ago) "churches" are going libertarian.

Here's the 3min intro video.

Your video was ok.

To answer the text in your post. "Libertarian" in the Biblical sense would be when men think they can do whatever they want then demand on judgment day to be let into heaven.