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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
MercyandFaith
I'm a semi-Calvinist (I believe God predestines most, but not necessarily all, things),
It's not just aspects of predestination that is error there are other things
I believe it is blasphemy to say that Jesus only died for the elect - it makes his sacrifice third class if he didn't die for the whole world
God shows his Greatness and Love by dying for everyone even those that hate and reject him - that is the measure of greatness, to die for the ones who will still reject you
Calvinists want to proclaim and defend God's greatness but they actually denigrate it by stating he did not die for the non-elect
That is a huge deception in their teaching
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Ezekiel 33
Not me, I have seen too many shipwrecked because they bought into OSAS.
Originally Posted by
FireBrand
That is because they are cessationist.
I'm not sure how those two are related.
(In passing, people would be less likely to be cessationists if the gifts worked as they did in the Bible, and those claiming to be gifted, and their supporters, did not continually come up with excuses when they don't. Which seems to be a lot.)
Anyway . . .
The Preservation of the Saints is a reformed doctrine and there's a 51 Scripture article on it here (Preservation of the Saints - Scripture List - The Staunch Calvinist). I DDG'd OSAS and found stuff on software and medical conditions. The only one that I found that referenced the Bible agreed with the Preservation of the Saints. (OSAS And Hebrews 10 – Grace thru faith)
Anyway it seems to me that the words used reflect the person's attitude to the underlying concept and to salvation and to the state of man, and so it's discussing apples and oranges.
In simple terms a reformed believer believes that his sin has made him so separate from God that he has no interest in Him and even if he did he would be incapable of doing anything about it. Therefore it is entirely an act of God that he is saved. God saved him and God will preserve him. Evidence of salvation is looked for by mature believers.
Others have beliefs ranging from sin having no affect on man up to man needing some help or leading from God, but in the end it's up to the man himself to choose to be saved. It required cooperation from God and man, but man is the one that makes the final decision. As someone is told they will be saved by doing something <ticking a box, lifting their hand, saying a formula "prayer"> there there will be people who are told (or say) they're saved but are not. So when these people return to their normal self what's the response. See above. The preacher doesn't say "they were never saved", that would reflect on them and muck up there KPIs </sarcasm>. Instead they blame the person and say they lost their salvation.
Sad.
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
I believe it is blasphemy to say that Jesus only died for the elect - it makes his sacrifice third class if he didn't die for the whole world
And the Scriptures are?
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
God shows his Greatness and Love by dying for everyone even those that hate and reject him - that is the measure of greatness, to die for the ones who will still reject you
Then why aren't they in heaven?
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
I believe it is blasphemy to say that Jesus only died for the elect
How do you respond to this?
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
FunFromOz
How do you respond to this?
I don't because most Calvinists are blind to their own doctrinal deception so it's pointless
God sovereignly has predestined them to be deluded and embrace doctrinal blindness
Those that God has predestined to have their eyes open to spiritual truth will see that it is blasphemy to say 'Jesus only died for the elect'
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Originally Posted by
FunFromOz
How do you respond to this?
More out of context scripture twisting. John 17:20 I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
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Calvinism is easy pickings for those who read scriptures in context not trying to prove their lopsided doctrines. When you knock the legs out from under their false arguments they change the subject. In other words they use the cult tactics because they cannot accept ever being wrong. No,not ever !
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
I don't because most Calvinists are blind to their own doctrinal deception so it's pointless
God sovereignly has predestined them to be deluded and embrace doctrinal blindness
Those that God has predestined to have their eyes open to spiritual truth will see that it is blasphemy to say 'Jesus only died for the elect'
"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a person sows, this he will also reap".
Or as VW said on FB a few days ago, "But I tell you that for every careless word that people speak, they will give an account of it on the day of judgment".
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Banned
Originally Posted by
LionHeart
More out of context scripture twisting. John 17:20 I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
You skipped 10 verses LionHeart. Where's the context there?
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Originally Posted by
FunFromOz
You skipped 10 verses LionHeart. Where's the context there?
This chapter taken in context does not prove your doctrine. You have to cherry pick scriptures to prove your points, That is a cult tactic that I have faced many times.
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