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Thread: Scriptural support for an "old earth"

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Here's another day :

    Mat 10:15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

    The expression "day of judgment" is used ten times in the New Testament and it's always singular and not plural. That's the day when men will be judged according to the deeds that they have done, good or bad. How long will that day last ? 24 hours ? From morning until evening ? I don't think so. Judging 10+ billion people for all their deeds so that all the other people will be satisfied with the justice pronounced will take quite some time. I don't know how long but easily years. So that's yet another "day" that lasts much longer than 24 hours.

    So how many "days" do we have by now ?

    The six creation days
    The seventh day when man was supposed to enter God's rest but didn't
    The day called "Today", the day of salvation, when man can enter God's rest through Jesus
    Judgment day
    The day of eternity

    That's ten. And there could be more.
    I think you're confusing the issue with the references to "day". In the Genesis account the days are defined - evening and morning, or chronological days. In the other references "day" is used as a reference to an era, like we say "the day of the horse and carriage".

  2. #22
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    What Scriptures do we base the enigma of light as a wave or a particle on? or quantum mechanics vs relativity? The point is we don't know everything, and there are some mysteries we have to be willing to accept. God wrote two books - the Bible and nature. The Bible seems to indicate that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. The observable universe appears to be nearly 14 billions years old. So I figure the truth is somewhere in the unknown, so we shouldn't be so dogmatic about this.
    The Bible seems to indicate that man is less than 10,000 years old. Not the Earth.

    Scriptural support for an "old earth"

  3. #23
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I am on my phone and don't have time to do the scripture references but I will do them later. But I will throw a few things out there with scripture reference is coming later.

    1. Genesis 1:1, God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:2 and the earth was without form and void. And in Isaiah states that he formed the earth to be in habitable. So there is a gap between verse one and verse two where all of this was destroyed.
    Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

    This also is a basis for some for a pre-adamite race since it was formed to be inhabited and then we find it without form and void then he creates Adam and Eve during the re-creation.

  4. #24
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    As you brought in the lawyer remark, on a scale of 1 to 10 how strong is that support?
    Not sure what you are referring to here. How strong is the carbon dating support?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    What Scriptures do we base the enigma of light as a wave or a particle on? or quantum mechanics vs relativity? The point is we don't know everything, and there are some mysteries we have to be willing to accept. .God wrote two books - the Bible and nature The Bible seems to indicate that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. The observable universe appears to be nearly 14 billions years old. So I figure the truth is somewhere in the unknown, so we shouldn't be so dogmatic about this.
    (Emphasis mine in the above)
    "God wrote two books - the Bible and nature". That's a new one to me. I know the Bible is a book? As for creation, we know that "since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made" so I guess metaphorically it could be. However what we read from it (nature, creation, whatever we call it) has to line up with the written "book", not the other way around. This is because the current world has been corrupted by sin but the word of God isn't.

    Added later: Are you suggesting then that God wrote two books and got both wrong???
    Last edited by FunFromOz; 07-12-2020 at 12:33 AM. Reason: Added last paragraph

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Here's another day :
    <snip>
    The six creation days
    The seventh day when man was supposed to enter God's rest but didn't
    The day called "Today", the day of salvation, when man can enter God's rest through Jesus
    Judgment day
    The day of eternity

    That's ten. And there could be more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    I think you're confusing the issue with the references to "day". In the Genesis account the days are defined - evening and morning, or chronological days. In the other references "day" is used as a reference to an era, like we say "the day of the horse and carriage".
    Exactly Jew and Greek. Independence "Day" (which you've recently had) lasts from its start in Boston till it's end in Midway, a period of 32 hours. Similarly New Year's Day lasts 48 hours. And our Birthday is the Anniversary of the Day of our Birth, but we know that, it's context (which is important Biblicly even if it isn't in the Bible).

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Not sure what you are referring to here. How strong is the carbon dating support?
    You said here (Scriptural support for an &quot;old earth&quot;)

    1. And in Isaiah states that he formed the earth to be in habitable. (I guess you meant inhabited)
    2. So there is a gap between verse one and verse two where all of this was destroyed.
    3. .. it's obvious he's not speaking about him but about Lucifer/Satan. He talks about him walking in the garden of Eden and every precious stone being his covering.
    4. This obviously would've had to been before Adam and Eve were created and before he fell."


    So the question would be "How strong would the Scriptural support be for each of those four individual statement?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Genesis 1:1, God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:2 and the earth was without form and void. And in Isaiah states that he formed the earth to be in habitable. So there is a gap between verse one and verse two where all of this was destroyed.
    This is almost a repeat question, but I'd like clarification

    Genesis 1 NASB says In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

    and Isaiah 45:18 NASB says For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else.

    How do we Scripturally get out of those six verses that "there is a gap between verse one and verse two where all of this was destroyed"?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    (Emphasis mine in the above)
    "God wrote two books - the Bible and nature". That's a new one to me. I know the Bible is a book? As for creation, we know that "since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made" so I guess metaphorically it could be. However what we read from it (nature, creation, whatever we call it) has to line up with the written "book", not the other way around. This is because the current world has been corrupted by sin but the word of God isn't.

    Added later: Are you suggesting then that God wrote two books and got both wrong???
    Of course not. I'm suggesting that there's a way to reconcile the apparent contradiction between the two, like faith and works, law and grace, blessings and piety, and all of the other theological tensions found in Scripture. Maybe the speed of light isn't a constant like we assume. Maybe fuego is right and the earth is very old. Maybe the expansion of the universe altered out perception of distance, time, and space. Or maybe there's something else that none of us geniuses ever considered. Bottom line is this is a mystery, and it's not something we should be dogmatic about.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    Or maybe there's something else that none of us geniuses ever considered.
    Maybe!

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