Thread: Question for OSAS folks...

Originally Posted by Femme*

You know it doesn't.

God called Israel, as a people, to carry and deliver His word, and be the line of the Messiah.

He calls individuals to salvation.

Please don't be disingenuous.

This is what happens so often around here, that people get offended at being asked questions that are perfectly legitimate given what they themselves have presented. This is a very good example of this.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Colonel

This is what happens so often around here, that people get offended at being asked questions that are perfectly legitimate given what they themselves have presented. This is a very good example of this.

Thank you.

Really?

A. not offended.. you assume too much..

B, you set out bait and I'm not biting, so you get all snarky.


I think I'm through with you.

yeah right

Obviously believing in eternal security, one would have to say (as Fuego correctly guesses) they were never really born again. Being born again requires the entrance of the Holy Spirit into one's life. If the Holy Spirit is within you, one sure sign of that is a hatred for sin. If you decide to embrace sin, something is terribly wrong with you. And certainly the idea that you were never really born again (as evidenced by your current embracing of sin) has merit. I know several people who have done this (professed Christ and later embraced homosexuality). It's a hard call, because other than their embracing of sin, they had always seemed truly born again. In the final analysis, I will still believe I, Bookman, am eternally secure. But as to you or to those who embark on a life of sin, I'm not going to be your judge.

In relation to oneself OSAS is a very palatable belief because the adherent has some control with where he heads with his own life. OSAS dictates that his current largely righteous path cannot fail. If he later finds himself changing that path a lot and getting callous and perhaps turning to unbelief then he probably won't care that much whether or not he was a believer before those changes were made. So until then, everything will be fine.

In relation to other believers, OSAS is a more difficult belief. People who have walked a largely righteous path and who depart from that path are all of a sudden lifelong hypocrites who never knew Jesus and every relation at the spiritual level is broken, present and past. There is no previous history of being a believer that one can attempt to revive, there is only hypocrisy and the insurmountable task of turning that history that has now shown itself for what it really is around so that a legitimate start can be made. The fall, when the OSASer dares declare it an actual fall, will be great. Probably so great that "Tom is eternally secure" all of a sudden turns into "Tom is and will always be just a pretender". Not in theory, but de facto.

Actually, ONLY God knows what's up with Tom, it's not our job to be making that assessment.

Originally Posted by Femme*

SO, on one hand you have Jesus taking ALL our sin/sickness/etc on the cross, but on the other hand WE have to fulfil the law to keep our salvation?

You have very little understanding of the Word of the Living God!

God created us for the PRIMARY purpose of sharing Himself with us by being one with is, and since He created us in His image we have free will just like He does which means... we decide what we are going to do and what we are not going to do.

If we deny allowing the Lord to be in fellowship with us... that's going to be a problem!

2 Corinthians 6:16,17
And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God; as God has said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people....Therefore come out from among them, and be separate, says the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

The Father's purpose for creating mankind was / is to be with us, and share Himself with us!
(see: 2 Corinthians 6:16,17, Ezekiel 37:27, Leviticus 26:12, Zechariah 2:10-11, Psalms 68:17-18, Isaiah 12:6, Psalm 46:4-7, Revelations 21:3, Luke 1:68, John 1:10-14, Ephesians 2:7)

Originally Posted by Bookman

I know several people who have done this (professed Christ and later embraced homosexuality). It's a hard call

Actually... it's a very easy and simple call, if we believe what God said about homosexuality.

On subjects like this, we don't even have to think. All we gotta do is go see what God said about it... and that IS the answer, unless God is a liar or unless He failed to control what went in to His Book.

Repeating what God said about a matter is not judging that person... it's simply saying "hey, here's what THE Judge said in His Book"

Originally Posted by Femme*

that is just so silly, truly it is.

Why is it silly? Because you don't believe anyone WOULD..yet scripture states having tasted the Spirit of God some would return to their vomit..
I know you say that means they were never saved but in a long ago discussion we greatly debated the word TASTE in light of Calvinism that says the Holy Spirit does not even enlighten the lost..so how could the lost TASTE Him? So femme, it's not SILLY...

Where do you see that in anything I've said? Again, you just make stuff up and attribute it to others.

SO, on one hand you have Jesus taking ALL our sin/sickness/etc on the cross, but on the other hand WE have to fulfil the law to keep our salvation?

No thanks.

I'll go with what Paul told the Romans.



We don't keep our salvation by doing good, we do good because we have our salvation.

It's ONLY our faith that Jesus IS who He said He was, by believing Him, that we have our salvation.[/QUOTE]

No law has to be fulfilled....I wish you could grasp that recognizing we were fallen and lost does not = incapable of choosing when HE reveals to us that we are in that state and Jesus is the answer..or that Him revealing that does not = incapable of resisting.

Imagine living in a bubble all your life and that bubble is all you know...then suddenly a door appears and you see clearly both outside and inside and realize you can choose to stay in the bubble or leave...You don't believe anyone would choose to remain in that bubble but according to that passage...they taste HIM and chose the vomit...

The Law was completely, wholly, fulfilled with Jesus on the cross.

Recognizing that we are fallen and lost means that God HAS revealed it to us. The Holy Spirit is the one who gives us this in order for us to repent and turn to God for forgiveness.

That doesn't mean you have multiple doors to choose from. We're already IN Door Sin, we're given a release from that to Door Life.



I have that same "can we know and still say 'NO'" discussion with another friend of mine, too.

We disagree.. eh.. no big thing... it's strictly an InHouse discussion..