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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
1 Cor 13 explains clearly what love is...why not renew your mind with those verses instead of default robotic ...wrath..anger....judgment... calvinism etc etc
It's obvious Paul who Jesus appeared to had a appreciation of God's love...since you want to obey God why don't you meditate on this
Correct it does, and this must be explained to people because (as I said) they think differently.
And what's also different is this love is in spite of how evil and sinful the people loved are; and they need to know this too.
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
Great how you find specks in non-calvinist comments but miss the giant planks in the eyes of Calvinism ...please continue finding specks I'm sure God is pleased with you
OK,
Bill said that "All men everywhere are drawn of God."
You said "the kingdom of heaven is full of babies and children who die as they are not held accountable before the age of accountibility"
So there's still the question of "all" being drawn or not.
Then there's the question of whether these babies and children had a choice or not? Did God force them to go to heaven? That's a big thing with the non-reformed, the need for choice. (Not that reformed theology says you haven't got one btw).
Specks in eyes hurt like hell TT. They need to be dealt with.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
Does that mean that is God's Plan A for them???
I'm not sure I can answer that question. Let me ask you a couple, though. First, do you think the tragedies that befell Job were God's Plan A for Job? Second, have you never known a person who said that God had not drawn them to Himself? Do you think they were lying?
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
fuego
I don't. And 'drawn' might have more connotations than we think it does. I remember a person testifying that they got saved at a later age, and asked God why He had never 'drawn' him before. The Lord gave him a quick vision of him when he was 16 and somebody handing him a tract and him throwing it to the ground. That was an attempt to 'draw'. It's not necessarily a 'feeling' of being drawn.
I do think it's a "feeling," though I would describe it as a spiritual feeling. I would substitute "hunger" for "drawing." Unless a person hungers after God, they won't find Him. And a great many people say they have not hungered after God. Surely the fellow who through away the tract given him was not hungering after God.
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Administrator
Originally Posted by
Bookman
Surely the fellow who through away the tract given him was not hungering after God.
No. But the point is God was trying to reach him and he rejected it.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
fuego
No. But the point is God was trying to reach him and he rejected it.
I take it, then, you don't believe a hunger for God leads to salvation. One can be saved without hungering for God.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Bookman
I'm not sure I can answer that question. Let me ask you a couple, though. First, do you think the tragedies that befell Job were God's Plan A for Job? Second, have you never known a person who said that God had not drawn them to Himself? Do you think they were lying?
God turned evil for good on Job's behalf so it was not Plan A
Because a person up to that point hasn't experienced God's drawing doesn't mean it won't happen in their later years or on their death bed....we should pray they will experience it.
Multitudes have given their heart to Jesus on their death bed and believers assume God never drew that person and they come up with doctrines to suit that assumption.
They will be shocked when they see that person in heaven
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Senior Member
FFO
Please tell us the sort of eulogy you want your kids and grandkids to say about you. Will they say FFO was a strong tough righteous father that told us about burning in hell if we are non elect and he rarely ever spoke on 1 Cor 13.
Listeners will think a human like that is a wacko devoid of love.
Do you know any human that wants a cold hard legalistic eulogy yet you paint God that way
A great eulogy is someone who loved Jesus and his family and lived a life reflecting the nature of God's goodness
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
FunFromOz
Well we are told "The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil." (Prov 16:4)
That doesn't mean that the wicked cannot change. You were wicked at one time, just like I was.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
FunFromOz
You do realise don't you Bill that the word
pas in Greek has multiple senses?
Ref:
Pas Meaning in Bible - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard
If we take the NAS renderings in alphabetical order we get:
NAS Word Usage - Total: 1242
- all 731,
- all the things 7,
- all...things 1,
- all kinds 1,
- all men 14,
- all people 4,
- all respects 3,
- all things 126,
- all* 1,
- always* 3,
- any 16,
- any at all 1,
- anyone 3,
- anything 3,
- anything* 1,
- continually* 6,
- entire 4,
- every 128,
- every form 1,
- every kind 9,
- every respect 1,
- every way 2,
- everyone 71,
- everyone's 1,
- everyone* 1,
- everything 45,
- forever* 1,
- full 2,
- great 2,
- no* 15,
- none* 1,
- nothing 1,
- nothing* 1,
- one 4,
- perfectly 1,
- quite 1,
- whatever 3,
- whatever* 1,
- whoever 7,
- whole 18
It is even translated "no" and "nothing"
And of course
whatever
Pas Meaning in Bible - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard
That's because there is a negative involved in the text, so they pull "not all" together to a contextual "none" and so on.
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