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Thread: Sound and/or False teachers.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    John MacArthur ...
    Todd Friel ...
    R. C. Sproul ...

    ...
    There is way too much for a full exegesis, so I'll just look at a few bits that demonstrate why John MacArthur started saying what he said in around 1969; had the Strange Fire conference in 2013; and still needs to say these things today.

    Ray Comfort says ... you need to tell people to repent of their sins in order to be saved.
    Do I really need to say anything?

    In, I think, the second panel video in my post above the panellists are asked what to say to people who try introducing charismatic stuff into their church. One response was "share the Gospel with them". There's why.

    John MacArthur teaches Lordship Salvation
    I only heard of that phrase recently but apparently it's been a big deal. Not just lately, but 100 or so years ago it caused Spurgeon an early death.

    Of course J Mac teaches that (and it's only called "Lordship" Salvation because people what to reject Jesus as their Lord. It's simply Salvation). As he says "Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture". (https://www.gty.org/library/articles...ship-salvation)

    We see repentance from Job to Revelation. Jesus Himself said "I have not come to call ... sinners to repentance" (Luke 5:32).

    We also see
    When asked if an Arminian could be saved (R.C. Sproul) response was "barely".
    and behind that response is the idea spoken in lots of churches that to be saved all you have to do is "believe". Why? Perhaps the speaker was told that? They tell others the same thing and these people say they believe but don't change, yet think of themselves as "christians" because they're told they are.

    The Bible says that if you confess that Jesus is Lord (Lord, not "your" Lord. Lord of Lords and King of Kings) and believe in your heart (not just give mental assent to, the devil does that, so do all the dead), then you will be saved.

    One of the things Robert Schindler (mentioned in previous post) noticed of the church when it slid away after a revival of true evangelical faith was the abandonment of the emphasis of God's sovereignty in salvation in favour of making man's will the deciding factor. That's exactly what we have in the charismatic movement and why the church is where it is today, and why we need and need to heed, John MacArthur's warnings.
    Last edited by FunFromOz; 04-21-2020 at 02:10 AM. Reason: Clarification

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    John MacArthur teaches Lordship Salvation. He has actually stated that salvation is based on what you do. He has also said that you could take the mark of the beast and still be saved. He has also said that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is attributing the work of the devil to the Holy Spirit. He also says that Mark stopped writing at verse 8 in Mark chapter 16. He also says that Jesus didn't die for everybody.
    Do you have a verifiable quote to that effect ?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunFromOz View Post
    Of course J Mac teaches that (and it's only called "Lordship" Salvation because people what to reject Jesus as their Lord. It's simply Salvation). As he says "Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture". (https://www.gty.org/library/articles...ship-salvation)

    We see repentance from Job to Revelation. Jesus Himself said "I have not come to call ... sinners to repentance" (Luke 5:32).

    We also see

    and behind that response is the idea spoken in lots of churches that to be saved all you have to do is "believe". Why? Perhaps the speaker was told that? They tell others the same thing and these people say they believe but don't change, yet think of themselves as "christians" because they're told they are.
    I've talked to hundreds of Calvinists online and most of them were straightforward five point Calvinists. My general impression was that they thought that they were saved if they had decided, for life, that they were among the elect. Which then lead them to believe. That is, most of the time. Many of them professed that one could depart from the faith entirely and return again later and be saved all along because of one's status as "one of the elect", someone who would eventually die as a believer.

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  5. #24
    Fuego: The spirit of Michal is alive in the Church today. Any deviation from what Tozer calls "wooden worship" is often stifled with extreme prejudice.

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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    Fuego: The spirit of Michal us alive in the Church today. Any deviation from what Tozer calls "wooden worship" is often stifled with extreme prejudice.
    Or just any deviation from dead and dry letter oriented "correct" doctrine. One can be as dead as a bat at the bottom of a witches' boiling cauldron and easily cleave to all of that if one simply knows how.

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  9. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Do you have a verifiable quote to that effect ?
    The Modern Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Selected Scriptures) - YouTube Start about five and a half minutes in.

  10. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I've talked to hundreds of Calvinists online and most of them were straightforward five point Calvinists. My general impression was that they thought that they were saved if they had decided, for life, that they were among the elect. Which then lead them to believe. That is, most of the time. Many of them professed that one could depart from the faith entirely and return again later and be saved all along because of one's status as "one of the elect", someone who would eventually die as a believer.
    Yep, what people believe can range widely. And it's going to be influenced by what we've been taught; what we've learnt ourselves; our ability to think logically and understand things even.

    I think, if you know then you know. But people will be deceived, as Jesus said "Not everyone who says Lord, Lord ...". I got saved in a church that told me it was my decision, yet I knew that I didn't make one, I just knew that at a particular moment I was saved. It made sense 15 years later when I was told that God saves you, His choice, His action.

    Here's an interesting list:

    How do I know if I have truly believed and am saved?

    You confess Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and trust in Him by faith (Romans 10:9)
    You confess sin; no longer indifferent towards it (1 John 1:9)
    Habitual patterns of sin are decreasing and fading (1 Cor. 6:11; 2 Cor. 5:17)
    You desire to be obedient to Christ (James 1:22)
    Your love for others is increasing (1 John 3:14)
    You hunger for God's word (1 Peter 2:2)
    You are filled with a desire to see others saved (2 Cor. 5:18-20)
    You love to serve the body of Christ with good works (Eph. 2:10; 1 Peter 4:7-11)
    You experience the discipline of God (Hebrews 12:6-8; Romans 1:18-32; Psalm 11:5)
    You are bearing the fruit of the Spirit; persevering to the end (Luke 6:43; Galatians 5:22)

    I hope you don't have to tick all the boxes, because I don't have a big desire to see people saved, or maybe I do, I certainly have a desire to see the Gospel preached correctly, and that includes telling people that they're sinners who need to repent, which I'm led to believe isn't a popular thing to do these days. In an environment where I had a opportunity to say it I found it quiet a difficult thing to do.

  11. #28
    "Abandonment of the emphasis of God's sovereignty in salvation in favour of making man's will the deciding factor. That's exactly what we have in the charismatic movement"

    1 - Most Charismatics believe in Gods sovereignty (i.e, Jesus ultimate authority and reign), but typically not the Calvinistic version of "sovereignty = meticulous micromanagement."

    2 - Mans will is PART of the algorithm and is biblical. A-God offers salvation, B - Man realizes he needs a savior and humbly repents, C - God grants salvation.

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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    Well technically he didn't redefine Holy Spirit blasphemy to presently mean the opposite. But his followers may well hear him saying that when they listen to him.

  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    "Abandonment of the emphasis of God's sovereignty in salvation in favour of making man's will the deciding factor. That's exactly what we have in the charismatic movement"

    Charismatics believe in Gods sovereignty (i.e, Jesus ultimate authority and reign), but typically not the Calvinistic version of "sovereignty = meticulous micromanagement."
    All the anti-charismatic needs to do is to define the hundreds of millions of people who have taken up the faith based on free will oriented teaching and declare them all to be non-saved heretics. Now all of a sudden the several thousand that have taken up the faith based on predestination oriented teaching represent a much more effective form of Christianity.

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