Thread: Paul's thorn in the flesh

Nor is diving into a shallow pool of water and breaking your neck "suffering for Christ."

Originally Posted by Ari

Nor is diving into a shallow pool of water and breaking your neck "suffering for Christ."

no but it does hurt...

Originally Posted by wheeze

no but it does hurt...

Paul said he left Trophimus there sick. Wouldn't he be a liar to not say he himself was sick if he was ? He never did say he was under the weather or sick. So being sick was different from a thorn in the flesh. Sick means sick. Thorn means anything else satanic ?

Originally Posted by LionHeart

Paul said he left Trophimus there sick. Wouldn't he be a liar to not say he himself was sick if he was ? He never did say he was under the weather or sick. So being sick was different from a thorn in the flesh. Sick means sick. Thorn means anything else satanic ?

I've read that a thorn in the flesh was simply something that irritates. Not something that incapacitates one. People were more hardy in those times, a thorn embedded in skin or flesh today would worry us more, to them it wasn't that much compared to their hardships on average. The reason why the troubles the angel of Satan stirred up were an irritation to Paul rather than something that subdued him was that God helped him overcome all of it. Even when he was stoned by the crowd and left for dead, he overcame and was back to normal the same day !

Originally Posted by Colonel

In Paul's list of afflictions in 2 Cor 4 and chapter 11 (just before the mention of the angel of Satan) we see what this angel produced : persecutions of all kinds.

Originally Posted by Quest

The issue with combining sickness in a bag with other types of suffering the scriptures talk about in context of service is two fold.

1. Sickness is not included in those lists.

As a matter of fact sickness and disease are conspicuous by their absence.

Originally Posted by LionHeart

Paul said he left Trophimus there sick. Wouldn't he be a liar to not say he himself was sick if he was ? He never did say he was under the weather or sick. So being sick was different from a thorn in the flesh. Sick means sick. Thorn means anything else satanic ?

:deadhorse:

In all of scripture, the thorn in the flesh is a Hebrew metaphor for a person who irritates or people...not sickness.

Originally Posted by Lively Stone

In all of scripture, the thorn in the flesh is a Hebrew metaphor for a person who irritates or people...not sickness.

I tend to agree...it has long been my view that Paul was speaking of religious leaders that were always stirred up wherever he went to bring division and discord..almost like being stalked and that it was of demonic origin. Of course we know al of such activity is Satanic but Paul seems to be addressing something out of the ordinary...My guess is that we should take him at face value here when he said 'a messenger from Satan sent...' obviously demonic

Originally Posted by Quest

I tend to agree...it has long been my view that Paul was speaking of religious leaders that were always stirred up wherever he went to bring division and discord..almost like being stalked and that it was of demonic origin. Of course we know al of such activity is Satanic but Paul seems to be addressing something out of the ordinary...My guess is that we should take him at face value here when he said 'a messenger from Satan sent...' obviously demonic

The Greek word traditionally translated as "messenger" in 2 Cor 12 is angelos. It is almost always translated as angel in the Bible. In a few instances early in the book of Revelation it probably should be translated as messenger according to context but in 2 Cor 12 it is an interpretative translation based purely on tradition and not on context. Angels of Satan are mentioned elsewhere in the Bible but it never talks about Satan having "messengers", whatever that means.

Translating angelos simply as angel implies that the theme is the same as in Ephesians 6, struggling not with flesh and blood but with principalities, rulers in the darkness. Paul's case was a matter of supernatural revelation about the fact that an angel had been assigned specifically to his person, to stir up troubles against him. Troubles that he was empowered to overcome and that is why the whole thing amounted to constant irritation rather than being overpowered by it.