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Thread: Question for those who believe that one can have the Spirit, die then go to hell

  1. #1
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Question for those who believe that one can have the Spirit, die then go to hell

    Why does a believer who sins severely enough, doesn't repent, dies, still has the Spirit - get sent to hell by God ?

    Why does God accept someone who sins less severely, doesn't repent, dies and still has the Spirit ?

    Why does he accept any of your decisions to repent of your sins as a Christian knowing that your repentance was double-minded, you still have a love for that sin in your heart and you are likely to commit the same sin again ? Why would he accept your last act of repenting just before you died knowing that if you had continued to live, you would have kept being double-minded about it and you would have committed the same sin again ?

    Why does he deem you any better and more worthy of heaven than your fellow man (who has genuine faith and has the Holy Spirit) who didn't quite live up to the standards you actually followed ?

    An ability and willingness to attempt to answer questions like these about one's beliefs is something that I consider to make someone worthy of my respect.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I do believe in a God who is infinitely holy and who does not accept any deviation from that standard at all. I don't believe that he accepts anyone into heaven except his Son who he is well pleased with. There certainly is noone on this forum who according to any split second of his life would even remotely qualify as appearing before God as anything better than what filthy menstrual rags were to the Jews.

    It is good that he has allowed those who believe to be recreated into something new, seeds produced in the resurrection of Christ Jesus, creatures created in his likeness. That creature he will accept into heaven because it is of the seed of his Son whom he is well pleased with. Its nature is indistinguishable from the nature of his Son. Nothing perishable can inherit the imperishable, only that which is born of God and is holy and cannot sin can enter into heaven.

    I have completely different reasons for pursuing God and his righteousness and holiness in my heart, soul, mind, walk and for serving him. As the Word itself says, his goodness is what drives us to repentance. Having a revelation of who he is, the grace he has given us, who he wants us to be, what may be accomplished through us serving him etc. All that makes the rest fade to the filthy rags that it is, making it completely uninteresting. In the contrast to the things of God, not in the promise of hell if those things are pursued. The flesh can handle being threatened with that, it can not handle being crucified in order to pursue something different.
    Last edited by Colonel; 07-29-2015 at 03:45 PM.

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  7. #4
    All of those questions can be answered with these two passages from Hebrews:

    Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Heb. 10:29)

    Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled (Heb. 12:14-15)

    It's so clear in Scripture that only a person blinded by false OSAS teaching can miss it.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    All of those questions can be answered with these two passages from Hebrews:

    Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Heb. 10:29)
    What is it that makes you think that you have not done that while someone else has ?

    And how are you going to accomplish being reinstated from the position of having done what is being discussed in Heb 10:29 given the preceding verses ?

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
    27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

    What will your repenting from having "done despite unto the Spirit of grace" accomplish when there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins but only a certain expectation of judgment ?

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  11. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    What is it that makes you think that you have not done that while someone else has ?

    And how are you going to accomplish being reinstated from the position of having done that given the preceding verses ?

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
    27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

    What will your repenting from having "done despite unto the Spirit of grace" accomplish when there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins but only a certain expectation of judgment ?
    Seems that with all of your fussing your "eternal security" has made you very insecure

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    Seems that with all of your fussing your "eternal security" has made you very insecure
    1) I do not believe in OSAS or eternal security

    2) That doesn't answer any of my questions

    3) I don't like your attitude at all

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    There are only two passages that (at least directly) discuss blaspheming or insulting the Holy Spirit.

    Jesus differentiates between that sin and every other sin here :

    Mark 3:28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;
    29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
    30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”

    And :

    Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified an unclean thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

    In the passages, the act is connected to not finding forgiveness and there not remaining any sacrifice for this sin, of being subjected to eternal damnation and being certain of judgment (Heb 10:26-27).

    The fact that Jesus differentiates clearly between this and every other sin tells us that the context of the Heb 10:29 is not living in sin but rather doing what the verse actually says, insulting the Holy Spirit.

    According to an article I read back in the nineties, the verse describes a concrete ritual that Christians who wished to return to Judaism had to undergo at one time, which involved trampling underfoot the symbolical blood of Jesus (probably the blood of an animal), declaring it unholy and then blaspheming the Spirit of grace.

    Scripture illuminates and brings context to scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled (Heb. 12:14-15)
    One thing is clear, noone is going to attain to the level of holiness that is required for being found acceptable to God in this life. By faith and the finished work of Jesus we have confidence to enter in to the holy of the holies :

    Heb 10:19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,
    20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,
    21 and having a High Priest over the house of God,
    22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water

    That is by his holiness and not by our own. Seeing God has a deeper meaning than just seeing him in afterlife though. Then we will see him fully since we will be transformed fully into the image of Christ. In this life, we see God but less than fully because we are less than fully transformed. By pursuing holiness (a goal we will not reach in this life) we will be able to see him more fully.

    The verse also talks about "failing of the grace of God". It doesn't discuss exactly what that means. Per Romans 11, turning to unbelief is where the line is drawn, where the branch doesn't abide in the tree anymore and is cut off.

    Romans 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
    21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare thee either.
    22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in His goodness. Otherwise thou also will be cut off.
    23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

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  19. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Why does a believer who sins severely enough, doesn't repent, dies, still has the Spirit - get sent to hell by God ?

    Why does God accept someone who sins less severely, doesn't repent, dies and still has the Spirit ?
    Colonel:

    Please explain what you mean when you speak of someone who "still has the spirit".

    Alter2Ego
    "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

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