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Thread: Arminianism versus Calvinism

  1. #21
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post
    interesting, because it's exactly the same thing I think about some of the rabid "free will" folks.
    I know..Actually I want to correct that statement..it's not a flawed view of sovereignty but a difference in how we view God manifesting His sovereignty..

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    Quote Originally Posted by krystian View Post
    Back in 2004 when I first started frequenting Christian forums I was on a site that had a mix of people including a fair number of Calvinists and there was one lady who got convinced that she was not one of chosen ones. She had a great sadness about it and just resigned herself to the fact in her mind that she was doomed.
    Wow...that's tragic. I hope she discovered the truth of her Father's love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatchyUsername View Post
    The OP was waaaaaaaayyyyyyy too long to read!

    That said, I'm reading one of the best books I've ever read as a Christian by Dr. Michael Heiser. In the book, he presents scripture that I've NEVER heard explained in the light of predestination, foreknowledge, etc....it literally blew my mind! I'll try to post something about it in this thread. It is simply incredible the way that he extrapolates from the scripture. VW will love it. I was actually going to send him a pm to tell him about the book, because it is exceptional. It is heavy duty theology/VERY strong meat.

    The book literally has nothing to do with the topic of predestination at all, but it is an idea he presents as part of a greater theme. Don't know when I'll get to it, but I'll try to post it soon. It's a lot to type.
    Intrigued

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by krystian View Post
    Back in 2004 when I first started frequenting Christian forums I was on a site that had a mix of people including a fair number of Calvinists and there was one lady who got convinced that she was not one of chosen ones. She had a great sadness about it and just resigned herself to the fact in her mind that she was doomed.
    Now THAT is in fact satanic!

    This is all so very simple... God exercised His sovereignty when He decided to make man in His own image, which is why God said we are gods.

    That simply means we decide our own destiny which comes back to sowing and reaping. Jesus said the entire Kingdom of God is based on sowing and reaping, so seed, time, and harvest is the operating system of the Kingdom of God and it's absolutely brilliant when you think about it because death is built in.

    death is being separated from God when we consider His definition of death in what He told Adam and Eve would happen if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He was not talking about physical death since they lived on for hundreds of years, so He was obviously talking about spiritual death which is to be disconnected from God's Life.

    If we sow to the flesh we shall reap corruption and if we sow to the spirit we shall reap life. God cannot be mocked because this is how His own existence is governed and it applies to us since God decided to make us like Himself. When God created man... He literally replicated Himself and man was just lower than God since the created can never be greater than the created. lucifer thought he could ascend above The Creator and he is doomed for eternity with no possibility for salvation (ha,ha on the devil! )

    Jesus said when teaching about seedtime and harvest that if we cannot understand his teaching on this subject, we would not be able to understand all the teachings in His Word because His entire Kingdom is based on seedtime and harvest.

    And, based on first part of Romans... all humans have knowledge of God when they are born and until sin revives and a person dies (Paul spoke about this later), their sins are not accounted unto them which is why when a baby or a young child dies they go to Heaven.

    In that section of Romans, God says they refused to retain the knowledge of God and are given over to a reprobate mind which is speaking of satan blinds the minds of men... which he does by sowing into people what Jesus spoke of in Mark 4:14-20 that would choke the Word and make it unfruitful.

    Jesus also said in John 15 that those IN HIM that bear no fruit (Word choked out of their lives) would be removed by the Father.

    Needless to say, there is no darkness in God and neither will there by anyone with iniquity in their heart allowed to go to Heaven which is evident numerous places speaking of final judgement when Jesus tells some to depart because they are workers of iniquity.

    Not sure where the confusion comes in... oh yeah, some folks don't accept God's Word as being literal and as a result they end up accepting thoughts from the devil who doesn't care what you focus on just as long as it's not having a personal relationship with the Lord that results in sincerity towards the Lord to walk in agreement with Him because... how can two walk together unless they be ageed?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by krystian View Post
    Back in 2004 when I first started frequenting Christian forums I was on a site that had a mix of people including a fair number of Calvinists and there was one lady who got convinced that she was not one of chosen ones. She had a great sadness about it and just resigned herself to the fact in her mind that she was doomed.
    that's pretty strange. She missed the whole point, altogether.

  6. #26
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    It's easy using that viewpoint to put seeds of doubt in someone's mind concerning their own salvation.

    So, how do you guys explain away scriptures like these?

    1 Timothy 2:3-6
    For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    Who gave himself a ransom for all

    Acts 17:30
    And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:

    Titus 2:11
    For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men

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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post
    that's pretty strange. She missed the whole point, altogether.
    How so? Because if she had been one that was not an elect she would never have even known or cared?

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    How so? Because if she had been one that was not an elect she would never have even known or cared?
    According to verses used by Calvinists as proof texts, the nonelect typically cared a great deal, just in the negative sense.

  10. #29
    Read many of the posts but since I am already in the process of writing a book on this subject, I have decided to decline commenting

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  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    According to verses used by Calvinists as proof texts, the nonelect typically cared a great deal, just in the negative sense.
    Well, femme has made it clear that she is not a poster child for Calvinism and a comment she made years ago led me to believe she thinks they are just blind and oblivious which would make sense because apart from the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit we all were. So if the Holy Spirit does not convict them and reveal their condition they are oblivious..that's why I asked her to explain her view of the woman Krystian mentioned.

    I gave an analogy of God in a boat with a net pulling out drowning people and picking some while leaving others. I think I suggested they were asking for help and refused. She responded that within that analogy she would say none of those drowning realized they were drowning and only those retrieved realized that they were but were rescued by grace..the rest don't know they are drowning.

    That's why I asked her if that's what she meant when she said this person had missed the point...did the fact that she was despondent prove she was one of the elect...

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