Thread: Arminianism versus Calvinism

Originally Posted by Cardinal TT

It was fore-ordained for you not to appreciate it

Originally Posted by Femme*

Attachment 403

How long have you been waiting to use that one?

actually, just stumbled onto it recently.

But, I sure grabbed it! LOL

You know... the muzlims think that whatever happens, it is the will of their god.

I've heard people that have tried to train these folks for whatever say that they sometimes seem to be lazy but it's not so much laziness as they think whatever their little demon god wants done is what he does and they cannot control any of it so they don't try many times.

I think it's funny how those Christians that believe some people just aren't pre-destined to be saved... never say that about themselves! They always seem to be one of the ones God has called to be saved.

Somebody should do a Christian comedy bit about a guy that believes in predestination... but sadly, he wasn't chosen so he's on his way to hell and he laments how bad it is (you know, make it all funny)... and then some guy comes along and shows him in the Word that it's God's will that ALL men come to repentance and get saved and the guy gets delivered from that satanic teaching that says God decided that just a few of us will be saved and all the rest of ya'll be gonna go to hell whether you receive Jesus or not.

Originally Posted by Cardinal TT

It was fore-ordained for you not to appreciate it

ROFL!!!!

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

You know... the muzlims think that whatever happens, it is the will of their god.

I've heard people that have tried to train these folks for whatever say that they sometimes seem to be lazy but it's not so much laziness as they think whatever their little demon god wants done is what he does and they cannot control any of it so they don't try many times.

I think it's funny how those Christians that believe some people just aren't pre-destined to be saved... never say that about themselves! They always seem to be one of the ones God has called to be saved.

Somebody should do a Christian comedy bit about a guy that believes in predestination... but sadly, he wasn't chosen so he's on his way to hell and he laments how bad it is (you know, make it all funny)... and then some guy comes along and shows him in the Word that it's God's will that ALL men come to repentance and get saved and the guy gets delivered from that satanic teaching that says God decided that just a few of us will be saved and all the rest of ya'll be gonna go to hell whether you receive Jesus or not.

Actually Calvinist state that those predestined for Hell are never 'enlightened' so they are oblivious of their dilemma.
It's is definitely a well versed theological system which is why it's so hard to penetrate. I had the same situation with my own development of WOF doctrine..Only the Holy Spirit can penetrate that shield and then only if the person is willing to let it be penetrated..one first has to acknowledge that they CAN and may be in error..not hard to do when one asks self the question, 'Do you believe your theology is perfectly sound?' If no is the answer then there is room for Him to penetrate. Secondly one has to reach the place they are dissatisfied with their relational experience by realizing their theology and their experience are not matching up...since many Calvinist are also cessationist this can be very problematic.

I personally believe it's greatest strength is in a flawed interpretation of sovereignty. One we determine an authority is sovereign and there is no room to question, and add to that predestination, tht when questions did arise in scripture they were predestined by God to do so..because nothing in man desires or seeks after God...at that point there is zero room for any true FREE relationship. I can say my relationship with God is free but it's not.

The woman taken in marriage without her consent who discovers the one she is married to is all together lovely will never desire to be separated even though she was taken against her will..but now her will is 'changed'. She never pines her previous desires because they were unenlightened desires.

The irony if it all is that the scriptures from beginning to end reveal the right to choose..that man is condemned already for his sin but yet God gives everyman an opportunity to repent through enlightment by Holy Spirit..Calvin says no...if He did that everyone would be saved because they cannot resist His love...so He choses to not enlighten everyone.

This is why the dabate will not end this side of glory..because it can't be torn down by debate..it has to be torn down from within. Debates and discussions raise questions...point to opposing passages...but unless that stronghold collapses from within, it holds fast.

When the Lord finally broke through my own theological stronghold He did it from within..without in debates my argument was SOLID..

Originally Posted by Quest

I personally believe it's greatest strength is in a flawed interpretation of sovereignty.

interesting, because it's exactly the same thing I think about some of the rabid "free will" folks.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

I think it's funny how those Christians that believe some people just aren't pre-destined to be saved... never say that about themselves! They always seem to be one of the ones God has called to be saved.

Back in 2004 when I first started frequenting Christian forums I was on a site that had a mix of people including a fair number of Calvinists and there was one lady who got convinced that she was not one of chosen ones. She had a great sadness about it and just resigned herself to the fact in her mind that she was doomed.

The OP was waaaaaaaayyyyyyy too long to read!

That said, I'm reading one of the best books I've ever read as a Christian by Dr. Michael Heiser. In the book, he presents scripture that I've NEVER heard explained in the light of predestination, foreknowledge, etc....it literally blew my mind! I'll try to post something about it in this thread. It is simply incredible the way that he extrapolates from the scripture. VW will love it. I was actually going to send him a pm to tell him about the book, because it is exceptional. It is heavy duty theology/VERY strong meat.

The book literally has nothing to do with the topic of predestination at all, but it is an idea he presents as part of a greater theme. Don't know when I'll get to it, but I'll try to post it soon. It's a lot to type.

That's terrible!

Originally Posted by krystian

Back in 2004 when I first started frequenting Christian forums I was on a site that had a mix of people including a fair number of Calvinists and there was one lady who got convinced that she was not one of chosen ones. She had a great sadness about it and just resigned herself to the fact in her mind that she was doomed.