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Originally Posted by
GodismyJudge
And then, as now, as you can tell, Cardinal TT strongly disagrees with the premise...
Thanks bro
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Originally Posted by
GodismyJudge
And then, as now, as you can tell, Cardinal TT strongly disagrees with the premise...
.
What do YOU say? :)
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Originally Posted by
fuego
What do YOU say? :)
Deep down he agrees with me but hasn't realized it yet
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I don't think Bill Johnson was teaching that Jesus descended into hell and was then born again as some teach it. He seems to be putting the emphasis on the birth in Bethlehem and the Resurrection being a rebirth (Acts 13:33)
Having said that, here's a video I did on the subject.
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Originally Posted by
Jew and Greek
I don't think Bill Johnson was teaching that Jesus descended into hell and was then born again as some teach it. He seems to be putting the emphasis on the birth in Bethlehem and the Resurrection being a rebirth (Acts 13:33)
Having said that, here's a video I did on the subject.
Thanks for the informative video. Good Christian historical records and quotes from past leaders from their lifetime.
Although there is disagreement from different camps on the discussion (JDS,JBA, or flat out denial of such beliefs) I don't think it would affect ones personal salvation no matter what camp of belief they are in regarding this subject. Belief and receiving Jesus Christ as our personal Savior is the source of eternal salvation, not trying to prove who is right or wrong in debating a non-salvation issue or biblical subject.
I'm sure we can all agree that Jesus was in the "belly of the earth" illegally. Adam's sin was never in His blood. Satan had no right to hold Him as he did of those in Abraham's bosom, who were contaminated with sin from the fall. We can all agree that it cost God His Son's life, and absolute painful and horrible suffering inflicted by the Romans, and the crucifixion itself. Not to mention what our Lord may have went through during those three days and nights in the center of the earth.
We can all agree that Jesus defeated satan, and stripped him of the keys of death, hell and the grave. In doing so, the Lord has secured our citizenship in heaven, from which we eagerly wait for Him, who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory. Thank Him that when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. Oh, what a Savior. Oh, what a Lord, the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords who reigns forever more.
If you put God First, you have Him at Last.
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Originally Posted by
Jew and Greek
I don't think Bill Johnson was teaching that Jesus descended into hell and was then born again as some teach it. He seems to be putting the emphasis on the birth in Bethlehem and the Resurrection being a rebirth (Acts 13:33)
Having said that, here's a video I did on the subject.
Enjoyed listening to your video
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I must complement everyone on this forum because no one has ever judged a persons salvation according to this topic.
It may happen in other forums but not here.
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Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
I must complement everyone on this forum because no one has ever judged a persons salvation according to this topic.
It may happen in other forums but not here.
This is definitely not a salvation issue. But if somebody does judge it as one, it normally comes from someone with your position.
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I don't believe that Jesus' spirit ever became sinful but this is an interesting passage :
John 12:23 But Jesus answered them, saying, "The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified.
24 Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.
Verse 23 determines that he's talking about his upcoming death and resurrection. In verse 24 the grain of wheat dies but does it resurrect again in the same form ? No, it does not. Technically it remains in the earth while the grain is sprouting above the earth.
One of those grains is Jesus in resurrected form and he was the firstborn from the dead. What does that mean ? It means that he has conquered death. He hadn't conquered death yet during his ministry on Earth. He had to die first to conquer death by resurrecting again because death could not hold him as Acts 2 talks about.
We parttake in his victory over death when we are born again. We are born again from a sinful state but he was "born again" from a state of not being sinful. That was the reason why death could not hold him, that there was no sin in him. So was Jesus born again ? That depends on what that is supposed to mean. He wasn't resurrected out of sin but he was resurrected out of death.
I agree with Cardinal TT that referring to Jesus as "born again" perhaps amounts to a confusion of terms because the term is never applied to Jesus in the Bible - as in "Jesus was (the first to be) born again". It makes for an interesting discussion but not for a proper definition.
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