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Thread: Jesus born again?

  1. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    That explains the phrase 'first begotten from the dead' which is a different Greek word to born again
    You gotta get off that. That's irrelevant. Of course it's going to be a different word when it's using a different word to explain the same thing. If one has already been born, then is the 'first born from the dead', then they have been born AGAIN. If you're using a different word to describe the same thing, of course it's gonna be different. That's not even a viable argument.

  2. #132
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    You gotta get off that. That's irrelevant. Of course it's going to be a different word when it's using a different word to explain the same thing. If one has already been born, then is the 'first born from the dead', then they have been born AGAIN. If you're using a different word to describe the same thing, of course it's gonna be different. That's not even a viable argument.
    What you said is classical eisegesis...choosing a belief you desire and squeeze what you want into that box and ignore proper exegesis of scripture and Greek words

    If anyone else did that in another topic you would correct them
    Lets distort the Greek and make it say what we want..that leads to error and man made doctrines

  3. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    What you said is classical eisegesis...choosing a belief you desire and squeeze what you want into that box and ignore proper exegesis of scripture and Greek words

    If anyone else did that in another topic you would correct them
    Lets distort the Greek and make it say what we want..that leads to error and man made doctrines
    Sounds like that's what you're doing to me. The only reason it doesn't mean the same thing is because you don't believe it. :)

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    That explains the phrase 'first begotten from the dead' which is a different Greek word to born again
    I agree that "born again" is an improper term to apply to Jesus because of the connotation of a sinner having his sin eradicated at the spirit level and receiving a clean spirit as the Holy Spirit cleanses him. But Jesus didn't merely die then revive again, meaning that everything was back to the way it had been before. Even though Jesus wasn't born again like we are born again, things can be looked at from the opposite angle. According to Romans 6 we die with Jesus and rise with Jesus, meaning that our new birth is an identification with him. With his death, not only with his resurrection. The former implies a death to sin, the latter a death to death.

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  6. #135
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Sounds like that's what you're doing to me. The only reason it doesn't mean the same thing is because you don't believe it. :)
    I don't believe it because it doesn't fit the scriptures and the specific meaning of the Greek. I have some basis to stand on whereas you have accepted a teaching with no evidence at all because it sounds like it could be 'revelation'.

  7. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I don't believe it because it doesn't fit the scriptures and the specific meaning of the Greek. I have some basis to stand on whereas you have accepted a teaching with no evidence at all because it sounds like it could be 'revelation'.
    "Jesus was born again" is very flashy and very imprecise. Which is often the case with the teachings of many big name Charismatic preachers. They often deal in slogans or exaggerations.

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  9. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I agree that "born again" is an improper term to apply to Jesus because of the connotation of a sinner having his sin eradicated at the spirit level and receiving a clean spirit as the Holy Spirit cleanses him.
    Exactly but some believers think a persons supposed 'revelation' wherever it came from trumps scripture with no basis
    It sounds like a 'wow factor' when you tell or teach people but it has no substance. People like wow factors

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  11. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Exactly but some believers think a persons supposed 'revelation' wherever it came from trumps scripture with no basis
    It sounds like a 'wow factor' when you tell or teach people but it has no substance. People like wow factors
    As I've been discussing just above it has some substance it's just that the connotations make it wildly imprecise. It's inevitable that people think the connotations are implicit, including among the followers of the proponents. That's why the terminology should be abandoned.

    40 percent of American "Christians" think that Jesus was a sinner who sinned. Which tells me that precise theology is needed as much as ever before. Have those people listen to Copeland's JDS statements and they'll think that Jesus was at one point the worst sinner who ever lived.

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  13. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    "Jesus was born again" is very flashy and very imprecise. Which is often the case with the teachings of many big name Charismatic preachers. They often deal in slogans or exaggerations.

    I wrote my above comment 1 minute after yours and didn't read your comment and we say the same thing.
    It's about slogans and wow factors

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  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I wrote my above comment 1 minute after yours and didn't read your comment and we say the same thing.
    It's about slogans and wow factors
    In my opinion the fact that Jesus remained intrinsically holy and sinless at all points during his ordeal is so essential to understanding the depths of what our salvation is about that messing around with imprecise terminology in relation to this topic is in fact worse than with most Biblical topics. Benny Hinn and Copeland going on a trip with this during the 1990s did a lot of damage.

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