Thread: Jesus born again?

Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33

Jesus committed no sin. Why would He need to be "Born Again"? When we are born again, we are given the nature of Christ. He already had the nature of Christ because He was the Christ. Why is this discussion lasting for 6 pages?

But he was MADE sin. So he had to experience the same punishment we would have for dying in sin. When someone dies, they have to be 'born again'. Jesus died spiritually (separation from God) as well as physically. That 'spiritual death' is what necessitate being 'born again'. Being our substitute He went through the same exact process we had to go through.

This is probably one of the few things we disagree on. lol.

Originally Posted by fuego

I don't 'need' Jesus to suffer in hell. It just follows that if he was our substitute, he needed to taste of EVERY aspect of our punishment for not being born again when we died. It's just logical as well as scriptural.

It doesn't work quite that way. We would have suffered in hell for eternity, Jesus only suffered there for three days (whatever his suffering amounted to). The difference is unfathomable.

But...there was nothing that suggested to Jesus that he wouldn't remain in hell for all of eternity. Except for his faith in the Father - who had already abandoned him. That is the number one faith hero in the Bible and also from eternity to eternity.

Originally Posted by fuego

But he was MADE sin. So he had to experience the same punishment we would have for dying in sin. When someone dies, they have to be 'born again'. Jesus died spiritually (separation from God) as well as physically. That 'spiritual death' is what necessitate being 'born again'. Being our substitute He went through the same exact process we had to go through.

Again it doesn't work quite that way. We were cleansed from our personal sin as we were born again, Jesus was not (whether one prefers to call what happened to him "being born again" or not).

Originally Posted by Colonel

It doesn't work quite that way. We would have suffered in hell for eternity, Jesus only suffered there for three days (whatever his suffering amounted to). The difference is unfathomable.

I don't see it that way because apparently Jesus only needed to taste of death, not literally suffer the entire punishment we would have.

Maybe we're approaching this topic the wrong way. It seems that people are hung up on the semantics of "born again". Just leaving that verbiage out of the discussion, was Jesus separated from The Father only on the cross, or did it carry over into the time that He was physically dead? What does it mean that He was made to be sin? What is meant by "Jesus took upon Himself the nature of Satan?" What do people mean when they say that Jesus experienced spiritual death? How relevant to our relationship with God is what happened between the crucifixion and the resurrection?

Originally Posted by fuego

I don't 'need' Jesus to suffer in hell. It just follows that if he was our substitute, he needed to taste of EVERY aspect of our punishment for not being born again when we died. It's just logical as well as scriptural.

That means he was put into the lake of fire not by satan but by God the Father

Did he also stand before God the Father and be pronounced cursed and cast into the lake - because that is also part of the judgement and would be man's horrific fear to experience

Originally Posted by Jew and Greek

Maybe we're approaching this topic the wrong way. It seems that people are hung up on the semantics of "born again".

Addressing your specific comment quoted above and have to disagree as it's not semantics

Jesus gave Nicodemus a clear scriptural teaching about being born again and rebuked him as a teacher for not being able to discern spiritual realities.
This make is very clear and important to Jesus

Paul told Timothy to study the scriptures to teach sound doctrine
In other biblical teaching we quote and use Greek words to either substantiate or reject teachings - the same applies to 'Born Again'

If people reject the Greek words in this discussion they cannot use the Greek to justify their position in another discussion

I stated the below in post #6 - I stick with the Greek words used

The Greek words are very clear and specific
When Jesus used born again it was 2 different Greek words compared to the Greek word of first born(begotten)

Born again refers to our spirit - First Born refers to the physical

First born in scripture is linked to the physical - the Greek uses it for Jesus' natural birth
Matt 1:25 - and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.

Originally Posted by Jew and Greek

Maybe we're approaching this topic the wrong way. It seems that people are hung up on the semantics of "born again". Just leaving that verbiage out of the discussion, was Jesus separated from The Father only on the cross, or did it carry over into the time that He was physically dead? What does it mean that He was made to be sin? What is meant by "Jesus took upon Himself the nature of Satan?" What do people mean when they say that Jesus experienced spiritual death? How relevant to our relationship with God is what happened between the crucifixion and the resurrection?

Definitely. Not sure why people are so offended by it as if it diminishes Him in some way to actually be a complete substitute for us. I don't get it.

One of the tenets of the Reformation is Sola Scriptura ("Scripture alone"): The Bible alone is our highest authority.

This was because the romans were adding to Scripture things which had no Scriptural basis, and even giving these things higher importance, the result of which is that the "church" of Rome became apostate and no longer part of the Church.

So on that note I'll quote this

The most contested line in the creed is "[Jesus] descended into hell." The basis for the line is 1 Peter 3:19, which states that Jesus "went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison." As A said, "People are making a lot of assumptions when they consider that this is a reference to hell and that Jesus went there between his death and his resurrection." And as B notes, "there is no textual basis in the New Testament for claiming that between Good Friday and Easter Christ was preaching to souls imprisoned in hell or Hades. . . . For these and other reasons, it seems best to me to omit from the Apostles' Creed the clause, 'he descended into hell,' rather than giving it other meanings that are more defensible, the way C does. (REF)"