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Thread: Sinner's Prayer- A good word

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Sinner's Prayer- A good word


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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Oh no, Romans 10:9-10 again. What a joke.

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Oh no, Romans 10:9-10 again. What a joke.
    Was there another discussion recently that you are referring to?

    The video is really good teaching.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Was there another discussion recently that you are referring to?

    The video is really good teaching.
    As discussed previously, his rewriting of Romans 10:9-10 is a total joke. He's so into making baptism virtually compulsory for salvation that he just has to get around what Romans 10:9-10 says in order to get as much leverage with that as he possibly can. Torben Søndergaard preaches a lot of good stuff but he can be very hard headed in the theological sense.

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    As discussed previously, his rewriting of Romans 10:9-10 is a total joke. He's so into making baptism virtually compulsory for salvation that he just has to get around what Romans 10:9-10 says in order to get as much leverage with that as he possibly can. Torben Søndergaard preaches a lot of good stuff but he can be very hard headed in the theological sense.
    Did you actually listen to the video? He makes some great points and puts everything into context.


    I haven't believed in using the "Sinner's prayer" for a very long time now. The Way of the Master pointed out that if someone is sorry/repentant for something then you shouldn't have to help them to tell God that they are sorry/repentant for their sins.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Did you actually listen to the video? He makes some great points and puts everything into context.


    I haven't believed in using the "Sinner's prayer" for a very long time now. The Way of the Master pointed out that if someone is sorry/repentant for something then you shouldn't have to help them to tell God that they are sorry/repentant for their sins.
    I've read his reasoning around the verse before and it's a total joke.

    Just because someone wants to emphasize baptism in water doesn't given them a right to tamper with verses that don't say exactly what they want them to say.

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I've read his reasoning around the verse before and it's a total joke.

    Just because someone wants to emphasize baptism in water doesn't given them a right to tamper with verses that don't say exactly what they want them to say.
    Not seeing what you are I guess. He isn't pushing baptism. He is pushing the unadulterated gospel of Jesus Christ.

    It was Jesus who said that repentance and remission of sin must be preached. It was Jesus who said to make disciples and baptize them. It was Jesus who said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved".


    And Torben put Romans 10 back into context. We cannot pick out 2 verses that do not stand alone and use them as stand alone verses to create doctrine with. That is where we get into trouble and wander off into false doctrine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Not seeing what you are I guess. He isn't pushing baptism. He is pushing the unadulterated gospel of Jesus Christ.

    It was Jesus who said that repentance and remission of sin must be preached. It was Jesus who said to make disciples and baptize them. It was Jesus who said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved".


    And Torben put Romans 10 back into context. We cannot pick out 2 verses that do not stand alone and use them as stand alone verses to create doctrine with. That is where we get into trouble and wander off into false doctrine.
    Ezekiel 33, do you or do you not believe that baptism in water is essential for salvation ?

    Baptismal regeneration - Wikipedia

    "Baptismal regeneration is the name given to doctrines held by major Christian denominations which maintain that salvation is intimately linked to the act of baptism, and that salvation is impossible apart from it."

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Ezekiel 33, do you or do you not believe that baptism in water is essential for salvation ?

    Baptismal regeneration - Wikipedia

    "Baptismal regeneration is the name given to doctrines held by major Christian denominations which maintain that salvation is intimately linked to the act of baptism, and that salvation is impossible apart from it."
    I believe that we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ who said "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved." Water baptism was intended to be the first step/action of that faith. No, we are not saved by water baptism. That is proven out in Acts 10.

    Let me ask you a question brother. If you preach the gospel to someone and they want to be saved but refuse to be baptized in water are they actually saved? Do they really believe that "Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8-Ethiopian)???

    If I really believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then I will do exactly as He said, right? Look at the gospel message that was preached throughout the book of Acts. It was just like Jesus commanded: "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

    Paul said "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."

    So if you are preaching a gospel different than what we see in the book of Acts, you are accursed by the words of Paul. THAT gospel is clearly and plainly displayed for all to see throughout the book of Acts--"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. "

    Every preacher who has treated baptism as just a side-note to the gospel, an afterthought, not that important is guilty of preaching another gospel and is one whom Paul said "Let them be accursed."

    The watering down (pun intended) of the gospel message is responsible for much of what we are witnessing in the church today. That is why a reformation is needed. We must reform back to the book of Acts and not to the faulty foundation of the catholic church like Luther and others have done.

    The doctrine of repentance and being baptized into Christ stands. This is the foundation that Paul laid as a wise master builder.

    Now we must choose, "Am I going to believe what I have always been taught in churches, or am I going to actually believe and act on what the Word of God says?"

    I choose the Word of God. I don't claim to understand every single aspect of every single doctrine. What I do understand is what is plainly written out so simple a child can understand it- The unchanging gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    In all of the book of Romans, which discusses salvation thoroughly, baptism is mentioned in only two verses, Romans 6:3-4.

    There is no mention of baptism in the verse from Luke 24 that you underlined, you're simply reading that into the verse :

    Luke 24:47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

    "remission"
    Strong's 859
    aphesis
    Definition
    * release from bondage or imprisonment
    * forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
    King James Word Usage - Total: 17
    remission 9, forgiveness 6, deliverance 1, liberty 1

    1 Cor 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

    Paul would never have said that if baptism in water had been a nearly essential part of the gospel.

    The fact is, the extreme approach to promoting baptism in water by going as far as tampering with passages and verses in order to make things look better has the capacity to put people, including myself, off the message. That would be one reason why I would personally not want to be affiliated with The Last Reformation, the extreme emphasis on baptism in water. There simply is such a thing as going too far with the political over promotion of details that one believes in and strongly wants others to believe in.

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