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Thread: Sinner's Prayer- A good word

  1. #21
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post

    We have a biblical model to follow. Why not just simply follow it in faith?
    I see no reason not to follow it.

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  3. #22
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    What is baptism in water ? It's at least two things. It's a public or semi-public confession of Christ as Lord. Noone baptizes themselves in water, it always involves others who are already believers, it's a social event. In addition to functioning as a form of confession, it's also an identification with the death and resurrection of Christ as Romans 6 talks about.

    It doesn't perform magic, it doesn't regenerate anyone and if people happen to be baptized in the Spirit or delivered from demons while being baptized in water as can frequenty be seen with TLR's baptisms, it's not something that we find many examples of or any doctrine about in the Bible. In fact, there is not a single example in the Bible of anyone being delivered from demons in conjunction with a baptism in water. I don't doubt that it happens a lot with TLR but it's not a matter of simply "doing what the Bible says".

  4. #23
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    No it doesn't perform magic, but the Holy Spirit is there for sure.

    We do not know how it went down in accounts like Acts 8. Did the demons come out while Philip was preaching, or did they come out during baptism, or maybe some of both. The important thing is that they came out.

    What I have noticed over the years though, is that the church as a whole pretty much treats water baptism as a non-essential event in the life of someone who has came to Christ. In the book of Acts and according to Jesus' words it is very essential. Like I have said, I believe that it was intended to be our first act of faith. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and so I want to be baptized because He said I need to be.

    So many skip over the fact that Jesus said that repentance and remission of sins must be preached, and everywhere we see that happening in the book of Acts it is accompanied by water baptism. It was so important to the apostles that Paul baptized the Philipian jailer and his household in the middle of the night as an escaped prisoner.

    Much of the church treats it as more of an inconvenience than what we see the apostles practicing.

  5. #24
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    I haven't watched the video so my comments don't address what he says, just my personal belief about the "sinner's prayer". And I think Zeke may agree with me, at least on this practical level.

    My objective ultimately is to get a person baptized in the Holy Spirit. Therefore, practically speaking, I need a way to know they've been saved so I can pray with them for the baptism in the Holy Spirit (just like on a practical level I need to hear the tongues to know they've been filled). As a matter of fact, because I prayed for someone to receive the Holy Spirit many years ago, and didn't realized he wasn't saved (I just assumed he was because he was a pastor's son and we were in my church when I prayed for him), is the reason that I include a 'sinner's prayer' at the beginning of the prayer I have them repeat after me when praying for them to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit. If they're sincere about receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit, they be sincere when they pray that prayer for receiving Jesus and be saved at that time if they're actually not. So I like a 'sinner's prayer' as a matter of practical ministry since I don't stop with salvation but go for the baptism in the Holy Spirit also. It lets me know I can move on to getting them filled.

    I guess you could equate this with water baptism too. Just as my objective is to get them baptized in the Holy Spirit after salvation, we should be more aware to bring up water baptism to because Jesus does say that 'he that believes and is baptized will be saved'. Is is neglected a lot. As Zeke mention it wasn't even offered to him. Normally a believer hears about it not at the time he's saved, but later in church when the subject comes up for the monthly or quarterly or even longer baptism session the church has. I think regular baptism can generate a lot of excitement in the church (if it's being done in a church) because it shows people are being saved. I think it's probably a defining moment for someone who has just gotten saved too. It was for me.

    Of course not regenerational baptism as Zeke mentioned he doesn't believe in either, but it is a part of His commission. So let's get them saved, baptized in the Holy Spirit, and baptized in water. And oh yeah, disciple them too. :)
    Last edited by fuego; 02-22-2020 at 12:21 AM.

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  7. #25
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    The background for the book of Acts was that a lot of Jews had been fascinated with Jesus and his teachings and miracles but eventually few dared to become followers because they were excluded from the synagogues. They watched from a distance and "believed" but they didn't confess to him as their Master or Christ. The miracles were so many and so powerful both while he was on Earth and again after Pentecost that "believing" in it all wasn't particularly difficult but the climate of persecution meant that it was much harder to become an actual follower, starting with confessing to Jesus as the risen Lord and Christ. Baptism in water was often a public event and when it became a private one like with the jailer in the night then at least they confessed to Jesus as their Lord and Saviour before each other and were held accountable to something that was more than a secret admiration and "faith" in Jesus as someone or something that produced many miracles.

    Baptism isn't mentioned much if at all in the Old Testament, it seems to have become common during the 400 years that passed betwen the last book in the OT, Nehemiah and the advent of John the Baptist. John the Baptist made it a baptism for the remission of sins and Jesus followed up on that thought.

    The (non-God-fearing) Gentiles in the book of Acts and the various letters weren't as used to the concept of baptism and some like the Corinthians seem to have had a different view of it in the cultural sense. Maybe that is why Paul was a bit more careful with that in relation to the Corinthians whereas the apostles in Jerusalem were huge on public baptisms because it had become very significant in contemporary Jewish culture.

    There's a reason why baptism in water is mentioned a lot in the gospels and the book of Acts but not very often in the more theological letters. It was very practical but apparently less significant in the theological sense. There's two verses in all of Romans and only a handful of mentions in the other letters if one skips Paul's "I didn't baptize anyone" discussion in 1 Corinthians.

    Today confessing to Jesus isn't so difficult in our parts of the world and being baptized in water at some time isn't so difficult either. Getting baptized in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues and believing in the gifts and miracles of the Holy Spirit may be a bit harder. Following Jesus as a disciple meaning that one lives accordingly is also a bit harder. So like Fuego, those two things seem more important to me than the one time act of getting baptized in water.

  8. #26
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved (Rm 10:13).
    I read a few years back where a preacher was shown a vision of a man who was in a serious auto accident and was bleeding profusely.
    In the vision, he said there was a demon standing over the man with his foot on the man's throat.
    The preacher said an angel told him that this man was trying to call on the name of Jesus to save him, but the demon was preventing him from doing so because of the pressure that was on his throat. Suddenly, the accident victim died. The angel told the preacher if the man had been able to call out on the name of the Lord, he would have been saved. But because he was unable to successfully to so, the man died lost and went to hell.

    I don't know if there is any merit to this story, but the fact remains that the voice is very instrumental in verbally communicating in saying (out loud) the name of Jesus.
    We all know 1 John 1:9, "That if we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
    Again, this is done with the voice. Of coarse, this verse is written for the believer who has sinned and needs forgiveness.
    The sinners prayer may not be found in the Bible such as the Lord's prayer, but the Lord wants to hear you speak or call out to Him for salvation.
    God is always listening.
    Psalm 66:18-19, "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear. But verily God has heard me. He hath attended to the voice of my prayer.
    I'm sure everyone here at living faith forum has said some kind of sinners prayer, or called out on the name of the Lord in their first initial salvation experience? Right?
    I know I did!
    But even at the first initial point of salvation, experiencing the new birth, being a babe (Heb 5:13), spiritual growth must follow (1 Peter 2:2) and continue for a lifetime.
    Last edited by Smitty; 02-22-2020 at 07:56 PM.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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  10. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    I'm sure everyone here at living faith forum has said some kind of sinners prayer, or called out on the name of the Lord in their first initial salvation experience? Right?
    I know I did!
    Yes, and have vigorously debated this very subject over the years.

    I don't care so much about the rote nature of a prayer because it is a heart to heart meeting with God. This is why the greater emphasis needs to be on making disciples.

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  12. #28
    I heard Kenneth Hagin tell a story about a couple who would minister on an Indian reservation.

    There was one fellow who was a BIG and MEAN. He would come in drunk and smash things and flip over the pews.

    Well, one time he came in and listened to the message.

    Well, He got up and everybody was expecting a rampage to occur, instead he got up and he cried out "JESUS!", "JESUS!". "JESUS!".

    Then as he was getting up his knees, and the ministers got all ready to go down to lead him in prayer to be repent, receive Jesus and be saved.

    But he declared that he was already saved.

    He said " Didn't you hear me? I just now called on Him, just like you preached... "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."


    Glory to God!


    That being said.... Baptisms (plural) are one of the elementary teachings about the Christ...


    Hebrews 6:1-2
    (1) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
    (2) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.






    .
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved (Rm 10:13).
    I read a few years back where a preacher was shown a vision of a man who was in a serious auto accident and was bleeding profusely.
    In the vision, he said there was a demon standing over the man with his foot on the man's throat.
    The preacher said an angel told him that this man was trying to call on the name of Jesus to save him, but the demon was preventing him from doing so because of the pressure that was on his throat. Suddenly, the accident victim died. The angel told the preacher if the man had been able to call out on the name of the Lord, he would have been saved. But because he was unable to successfully to so, the man died lost and went to hell.

    I don't know if there is any merit to this story, but the fact remains that the voice is very instrumental in verbally communicating in saying (out loud) the name of Jesus.
    We all know 1 John 1:9, "That if we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
    Again, this is done with the voice. Of coarse, this verse is written for the believer who has sinned and needs forgiveness.
    The sinners prayer may not be found in the Bible such as the Lord's prayer, but the Lord wants to hear you speak or call out to Him for salvation.
    God is always listening.
    Psalm 66:18-19, "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear. But verily God has heard me. He hath attended to the voice of my prayer.
    I'm sure everyone here at living faith forum has said some kind of sinners prayer, or called out on the name of the Lord in their first initial salvation experience? Right?
    I know I did!
    But even at the first initial point of salvation, experiencing the new birth, being a babe (Heb 5:13), spiritual growth must follow (1 Peter 2:2) and continue for a lifetime.
    I don't believe that story at all. God looks to the heart and the man was trying. Then there are people who cannot speak but who can think a prayer.

    Acts 10:43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."
    44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
    45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
    46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

    Believing in Jesus isn't mentioned until verse 43, which is when these people would be able to take up the faith. Immediately they start speaking in tongues while Peter is still speaking and there is no mention of their confessing Jesus as Lord out loud first.

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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    That being said.... Baptisms (plural) are one of the elementary teachings about the Christ...


    Hebrews 6:1-2
    (1) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
    (2) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
    There's baptism in water, baptism in the Holy Spirit (and fire), and there's more :

    1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body

    That's the new birth, the Spirit is doing the baptism and it's not for empowering but for being born again. Just like the disciples were on the day of the resurrection per John 20:22.

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