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Thread: Holy Water

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk View Post
    Smitty "Peter Popoff has been back for 10 years or longer misleading believers with his gimmicks.

    In the context of this discussion, your comment only makes sense if you are disparaging the example set by Jesus in His use of healing gimmicks like anointing with oil, spittle, or clay mixed with saliva. If that was not your intention, your comment is irrelevant to the issue in question.
    Are you familiar with Popoff and what he was busted going and what I assume this video is about also?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk View Post
    Smitty "Peter Popoff has been back for 10 years or longer misleading believers with his gimmicks.

    In the context of this discussion, your comment only makes sense if you are disparaging the example set by Jesus in His use of healing gimmicks like anointing with oil, spittle, or clay mixed with saliva. If that was not your intention, your comment is irrelevant to the issue in question.
    For a moment there it seemed like you started this thread with the way you are trying to control it.

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  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    For a moment there it seemed like you started this thread with the way you are trying to control it.
    The reference to Popoff illustrates how Pentecostals feel the need to avoid the hard work of critical engagement with alternative Christian spiritualities by setting up for ridicule an irrelevant strawman (e.g. Popoff) that allows them to duck the point at issue. I view closed minded Pentecostal Ghetto-speak as eloquent evidence of the attitude that ensures that most prophesying and interpretations of tongues in Pentecostal worship is of the flesh. [Consult my personal testimony for the early life experiences that led me to this conclusion.] Pentecostals simply lack the intellectual humility and spiritual integrity to subject these manifestations to the gift of discernment. Well, the Holy Spirit doesn't jump just because we crack our whip! By the same token, anti-Catholic Pentecostal venom is not an authentic and godly basis for discerning the merits of sprinkling with Holy Water.

  5. #24
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk View Post
    The reference to Popoff illustrates how Pentecostals feel the need to avoid the hard work of critical engagement with alternative Christian spiritualities by setting up for ridicule an irrelevant strawman (e.g. Popoff) that allows them to duck the point at issue. I view closed minded Pentecostal Ghetto-speak as eloquent evidence of the attitude that ensures that most prophesying and interpretations of tongues in Pentecostal worship is of the flesh. [Consult my personal testimony for the early life experiences that led me to this conclusion.] Pentecostals simply lack the intellectual humility and spiritual integrity to subject these manifestations to the gift of discernment. Well, the Holy Spirit doesn't jump just because we crack our whip! By the same token, anti-Catholic Pentecostal venom is not an authentic and godly basis for discerning the merits of sprinkling with Holy Water.

    Seriously, if you have so much trouble with Pentecostal thinking, you are on the wrong forum. You are belittling and disparaging toward people you have not even taken the time to get to know. Many of the members here are long time pastors, teachers, preachers and authors. Please use some respect when replying to posts.

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  7. #25
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Berserk, you are much too quick to set up versuses for debate. The relational nature of this forum makes it the worst possible place for that. Some of your responses come across as autistic to some people.

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  9. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Seriously, if you have so much trouble with Pentecostal thinking, you are on the wrong forum. You are belittling and disparaging toward people you have not even taken the time to get to know. Many of the members here are long time pastors, teachers, preachers and authors. Please use some respect when replying to posts.

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    My posted personal testimony attests my experiences with the supernatural exercise of the gifts of the Spirit. I have devoted a great deal of time on other evangelical sites to defending Pentecostal distinctives. I initially came here for fellowship and therefore began by posting in the personal interest sections. Then I created my first theological post simply to introduce my methodological approach and assumptions as a published academic and former Pentecostal theology professor at a major Catholic university. But shockingly, that thread was maligned with grotesque sarcasm and ad hominem attacks directed at someone posters couldn't be bothered to get to know. So I immediately shifted my purpose to blunt exposure of the lack of Pentecostal integrity I have experienced for most of my adult life. My critiques are honest reflections of deeply held convictions, but I would have been excruciatingly polite if I had been treated in a house-broken manner. I initially hoped to post primary on subjects like the secrets of effective prayer, the gifts of the Spirit, the catalysts of true revival, and the hidden reasons why expected major revivals cannot happen, given the current state of the church. Then I noticed the correlation between the rudeness of site members to newbies and the shocking paucity of testimonies in that section of the forum and began to sense the spiritual impoverishment of this site. Accordingly, I shifted my focus to polemics in keeping with the site's overall tone.

    My Dad was a Gospel singer on the longest lasting Gospel program in North American history. Yet since the 1940s, he didn't have a single close friend in our Pentecostal church. I finally persuaded him to leave and join a non-Pentecostal church, where he promptly developed some close friendships. He was a shy man and his loneliness served as a deafening commentary on the shallowness of the Pentecostal spirituality he so longed to represent. So forgive me if I take vigorous exception to shallow Pentecostal spirituality. My life experience does not support the Pentecostal propaganda about what the standard experiences of Spirit baptism can do in the life of the believer. The offense I took to my mistreatment here prompted me to suspend the testimony of my experiences in the Spirit half-way through and has forced me to consider whether I should continue posting on this site. But know this: many evangelicals have been inspired by my testimony to explore the gifts of the Spirit for themselves. I shall refer them to this site as a cautionary tale about the distinction between genuine and counterfeit charismatic spirituality.

  10. #27
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk View Post
    My posted personal testimony attests my experiences with the supernatural exercise of the gifts of the Spirit. I have devoted a great deal of time on other evangelical sites to defending Pentecostal distinctives. I initially came here for fellowship and therefore began by posting in the personal interest sections. Then I created my first theological post simply to introduce my methodological approach and assumptions as a published academic and former Pentecostal theology professor at a major Catholic university. But shockingly, that thread was maligned with grotesque sarcasm and ad hominem attacks directed at someone posters couldn't be bothered to get to know. So I immediately shifted my purpose to blunt exposure of the lack of Pentecostal integrity I have experienced for most of my adult life. My critiques are honest reflections of deeply held convictions, but I would have been excruciatingly polite if I had been treated in a house-broken manner. I initially hoped to post primary on subjects like the secrets of effective prayer, the gifts of the Spirit, the catalysts of true revival, and the hidden reasons why expected major revivals cannot happen, given the current state of the church. Then I noticed the correlation between the rudeness of site members to newbies and the shocking paucity of testimonies in that section of the forum and began to sense the spiritual impoverishment of this site. Accordingly, I shifted my focus to polemics in keeping with the site's overall tone.

    My Dad was a Gospel singer on the longest lasting Gospel program in North American history. Yet since the 1940s, he didn't have a single close friend in our Pentecostal church. I finally persuaded him to leave and join a non-Pentecostal church, where he promptly developed some close friendships. He was a shy man and his loneliness served as a deafening commentary on the shallowness of the Pentecostal spirituality he so longed to represent. So forgive me if I take vigorous exception to shallow Pentecostal spirituality. My life experience does not support the Pentecostal propaganda about what the standard experiences of Spirit baptism can do in the life of the believer. The offense I took to my mistreatment here prompted me to suspend the testimony of my experiences in the Spirit half-way through and has forced me to consider whether I should continue posting on this site. But know this: many evangelicals have been inspired by my testimony to explore the gifts of the Spirit for themselves. I shall refer them to this site as a cautionary tale about the distinction between genuine and counterfeit charismatic spirituality.
    You take yourself too seriously, that's why things develop in the wrong direction for you. Most posters here are very hard to impress, whether it's academic credentials or experiences of the miraculous. Stereotyping people with "you pentecostal this and that" doesn't work well. Most of us would label ourselves Charismatics which is a term that ranges from John Wesley to the prophetic movement, at the very least.

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  12. #28
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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  13. #29
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk View Post
    My posted personal testimony attests my experiences with the supernatural exercise of the gifts of the Spirit. I have devoted a great deal of time on other evangelical sites to defending Pentecostal distinctives. I initially came here for fellowship and therefore began by posting in the personal interest sections. Then I created my first theological post simply to introduce my methodological approach and assumptions as a published academic and former Pentecostal theology professor at a major Catholic university. But shockingly, that thread was maligned with grotesque sarcasm and ad hominem attacks directed at someone posters couldn't be bothered to get to know. So I immediately shifted my purpose to blunt exposure of the lack of Pentecostal integrity I have experienced for most of my adult life. My critiques are honest reflections of deeply held convictions, but I would have been excruciatingly polite if I had been treated in a house-broken manner. I initially hoped to post primary on subjects like the secrets of effective prayer, the gifts of the Spirit, the catalysts of true revival, and the hidden reasons why expected major revivals cannot happen, given the current state of the church. Then I noticed the correlation between the rudeness of site members to newbies and the shocking paucity of testimonies in that section of the forum and began to sense the spiritual impoverishment of this site. Accordingly, I shifted my focus to polemics in keeping with the site's overall tone.

    My Dad was a Gospel singer on the longest lasting Gospel program in North American history. Yet since the 1940s, he didn't have a single close friend in our Pentecostal church. I finally persuaded him to leave and join a non-Pentecostal church, where he promptly developed some close friendships. He was a shy man and his loneliness served as a deafening commentary on the shallowness of the Pentecostal spirituality he so longed to represent. So forgive me if I take vigorous exception to shallow Pentecostal spirituality. My life experience does not support the Pentecostal propaganda about what the standard experiences of Spirit baptism can do in the life of the believer. The offense I took to my mistreatment here prompted me to suspend the testimony of my experiences in the Spirit half-way through and has forced me to consider whether I should continue posting on this site. But know this: many evangelicals have been inspired by my testimony to explore the gifts of the Spirit for themselves. I shall refer them to this site as a cautionary tale about the distinction between genuine and counterfeit charismatic spirituality.


    From your very first post, disguised as a "testimony," you implied that you have so much to teach us poor ignorant Pentecostals. On one hand, you say that you're looking for fellowship but your haughty attitude, on the other hand, says far, far more.

    You obviously still carry some offense toward Pentecostals from the way your Dad was treated. It shows in where you chose to teach and your attitude now. Perhaps it's time to forgive those people and move on.

    The members of this forum are far from shallow. There are some very kind, compassionate and knowledgeable people on this forum but your pompous attitude has put many of us off right from the git-go.

    Take a chill pill, drop the attitude and try to get to know us on an adult to adult level. We are not a bunch of wide-eyed students in a lecture hall that you can dominate or impress.

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