Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 40 of 40

Thread: My Foundational Assumptions and Questions for Theological Debate and Christian Apologetics

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Well....it's not meant to be some kind of medieval rodeo at least.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    Is this the annual meeting of the Mutual Admiration Society?
    More like the Self Admiration Society
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to victoryword For This Useful Post:

    curly sue (12-22-2019)

  4. #33
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    More like the Self Admiration Society
    Us small, insignificant critters roaming the underbrush need something to entertain ourselves with some times.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    FireBrand (12-21-2019)

  6. #34
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    16,274
    Thanked: 14133
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    All of us who have a "high horse" can always compare to see whose horse is higher

    Yeah, Berserk could provide some of us with some steep competition on this one. Perhaps I need to follow the advice of those who have told me to, "Get off of my high horse."
    As my former pastor used to say, "He that tooteth not his own horn, it shall not be tooted".

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to fuego For This Useful Post:

    FireBrand (12-21-2019)

  8. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk View Post
    (1) To what extent does my preconceived bias prevent me from engaging the unchurched and Christians from other denominations in honest and open intellectual inquiry into the issues that divide us?
    (a) Does my doctrine of biblical inerrancy prevent me from exploring a natural and logical interpretation of biblical texts and their historical background?
    (b) Am I willing to watch online videos that support positions I vehemently oppose in exchange for my opponent's willingness to watch videos that defend my position?
    Berserk:

    When you speak of "the unchurched," I am assuming you are referring to non-Christians. But let me ask you this: Are you applying questions (1) and (a) above to yourself? In other words, are you referring to your own "preconceived bias" and "doctrine of biblical inerrancy"? The reason why I ask is because it will help me understand whether or not you--or anybody else in this forum, for that matter--are willing to move beyond your "preconceived bias" and "doctrine of biblical inerrancy" and allow God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, to be the authority.

    In my experience in debating people at various religion forums, I have been hard pressed to find anyone willing to let go of their preconceived biases when discussing scripture. People, including Christians, are very attached to their religious traditions, even when scripture from the Judeo-Christian Bible contradicts their religious traditions.

    Alter2Ego
    "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

  9. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    As my former pastor used to say, "He that tooteth not his own horn, it shall not be tooted".
    Mine used to say, "It's a poor frog that won't praise his own pond"
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to victoryword For This Useful Post:

    fuego (12-21-2019)

  11. #37
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Everett, Washington
    Posts
    1,629
    Thanked: 1786
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by FireBrand View Post
    "Non-academic" and just fine with it.
    "Non-Accredited"

    Although I have an accredited Associate of Biblical Studies (A.B.S) from Vision International University earned in 2005, I went the easier route
    in obtaining a B.A., M.A., & Th.D,in a much shorter time than it would take going to a traditional seminary for 8 to 12 years.
    The degrees are non-accredited (maybe they are:National Bible College Association – Private Christian Accreditation) and some would say that the school is nothing more than a diploma mill. And that my friend may be true.
    The "Doctor of Theology" is more of a novelty hanging on my wall than an actual earned doctorate from lets say "Dallas Theological Seminary."
    I also have a "Honorary Doctor of Divinity" granted from the same school. Oval Bible College
    Why did I pursue these non-accredited degrees? Just for the fun of it!
    Doesn't make me any smarter, because I'm not that smart anyways.
    And please, don't ever call me Dr. Smith!
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Smitty For This Useful Post:

    A.J. (12-22-2019), Cardinal TT (12-22-2019), curly sue (12-22-2019), FireBrand (12-22-2019)

  13. #38
    The inadequate Pentecostal reliance on Sola Scriptura in the "Holy Water" thread nicely tees up discussion of OP section quoted below: [Note the reference below to a different type of "holy water."]

    (c) RELEVANT HISTORICAL AND ANCIENT CULTURAL INFORMATION:

    (ii) Does my spirituality unwittingly assume that the guidance of the Holy Spirit basically deserted the Church after the apostolic age, only to return to the Church during the Protestant Reformation?
    (iii) The Wesleyan Quadrilateral recognizes 4 essential tools that must "ste[e]r" our quest for Truth: Scripture, Tradition, Experience, and reason.
    What does it even mean to bypass these 4 tools and instead invoke the doctrine of Sola Scriptura?
    (iv) The modern church is in danger of unwittingly reading back modern theological talking points into a New Testament mindset. One remedy for such inevitable eisegesis is to acquaint oneself with early Catholic tradition, especially in the first 3 centuries, because these writings share the same culture as the NT church and benefit from surviving oral apostolic tradition. What role does Catholic Tradition play in the formation of my doctrinal beliefs? Am I even aware of how Catholic theologians ground their doctrinal distinctives in Scripture: e.g. the way of salvation, Infant baptism, Eucharistic Real Presence [Transubstantiation], confession of sins to priests, Purgatory, and prayer to the saints and the Virgin Mary? Or do I create a strawman caricature of Catholic theology, so that I can trash Catholic distinctives to justify my preconceived perspectives?

    Evangelicals like to cite texts like Psalm 139:13 in support of their pro-life agenda:
    "You knit me together in my mother's womb (Psalm 139:13)."
    But progressives argue that this poetic allusion to divine womb "knitting" is not understood as an anti-abortion text in Old Testament teaching. On the contrary, they argue a case can be made for biblical support of abortion:

    Progressive Christians use the Bible to promote abortion - Stand Up For The Truth

    Here I will highlight just 2 of their biblical arguments:
    (1) The Torah prescribes a test for suspected adultery that requires the female suspect to drink dust-filled "holy water", also called "the water of bitterness" (Numbers 5:17-18--rightly NIV and NRSV). If she is guilty, "her womb shall discharge" (5:22, 27). So if the adulterer impregnated her. she will spontaneously abort. In such cases, no thought is given to the resulting loss of innocent fetal life!
    (2) There is a second way in which Torah legislation seems inconsistent with the view that the fetus is a person with all the rights due to a person. The penalty for a miscarriage during an altercation is only a manageable fine. But if the pregnant woman dies as a result of the altercation, the victimizer is to be executed (Exodus 21:22-24). The relatively mild judgment for killing the fetus is incompatible with that fetus's status as a person with full human rights.

    So on the basis of Sola Scriptura, the case for a pro-abortion agenda is hard to refute. The NT offers no help on this question. The abortion issue is a prime example of the incompleteness of biblical revelation and the need to respect the reality of progressive revelation from the OT to the NT era and from the NT to early Catholic tradition. The best example of progressive revelation from the OT era to the time of Christ is Jesus' frequent use of the phrase "You have heard that it was said...but I say unto you" in the Sermon on the Mount. The best Gospel text for progressive revelation from Jesus' era to the early Christian era is John 16:12-13:

    "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth."

    For the Christian, the abortion debate is decisively settle by early Catholic tradition, beginning with Didache 4:2 (full title "The Teaching of the 12 Apostles"):

    "You shall not procure an abortion (Didache 4:2)."

    This prohibition is found in the Two Ways section which is modeled after Qumran's Manual of Discipline and is usually dated to the period prior to the destruction of the Temple and therefore predates most of our NT writings. Thus, on the abortion question, the Didache fills in the gap created by the incompleteness of biblical revelation and reveals the otherwise unstated perspective of the NT church on this question. We can say this with confidence because from that time on, the early church unanimously condemns abortion. This is a glowing example of the need to replace the doctrine of Sola Scriptura with the Wesleyan Quadrilateral for determining Christian truth-- i. e. Scripture, Tradition. Experience. and Reason. [in its fnal form, the Didache is completed around 95 AD, still well within the NT era.] More doctrinal examples of this need will follow.

  14. #39

    Are There Really Verses in the Bible That Support Abortion?
    By Michael Brown
    Published on June 11, 2019
    Are There Really Verses in the Bible That Support Abortion? | The Stream



    ...What of the Bitter Drink in Numbers?

    As for the passage in Numbers, it speaks of a ceremony which takes place when a husband suspects that his wife has committed adultery. In that case, she is forced to take a public oath and drink a unique concoction, with the priest saying, "'the LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the LORD makes your thigh fall away and your body swell. May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.' And the woman shall say, 'Amen, Amen.'" (Num 5:21-22, ESV)

    Here, we are told by some defenders of abortion, it is God Himself who performs the abortion with the drink that the wife ingests, causing this pregnant woman to lose her child. How, then, can we argue that God is pro-life?

    As ludicrous as this argument sounds, it is often raised, so let's take a moment to rebut it.

    First, God is the righteous Judge, and if He deems it right to take a life, that is His prerogative (see Deuteronomy 32:39; note also the narrative in 2 Samuel 11-12, where David commits adultery and the baby that is born dies as a result of judgment).

    Second, and more germane to the text here, the passage says absolutely nothing about the woman being pregnant, nor does it speak of her miscarrying. Nothing in the Hebrew text points in that direction at all.

    Third, even if the drink allegedly caused miscarriages (which, again, the text does not reference or speak of at all), if the woman had not committed adultery, it would have no effect on her. This would mean that the drink was not some kind of abortifacient.

    Case closed....








    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to GodismyJudge For This Useful Post:

    Colonel (01-19-2020)

  16. #40
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    That's what I always thought that the verse meant, that she would become infertile from now and on. There's no mention of a child and if there had been one it could have been her husband's as well as her lover's (what if she conceived before she ever committed adultery ?). In the case that she would become infertile it was permissable for the husband to either divorce her or take a second wife like what seems to have been the case with Hannah in 1 Sam 1-2.

    So that pro-abortion claim amounts to propaganda based on a faulty rendering of scripture. Which is often what happens, I've seen that sort of thing many times. The best example may be the gay agenda's rendering of Ruth and Naomi as lesbians which is ludicrous given the actual text. But I suppose they have to try to make up something.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Colonel For This Useful Post:

    GodismyJudge (01-19-2020)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Stop worrying about expensive repair bills with an extended service plan for your Mazda. Many vehicle repairs can cost thousands of dollars in unexpected expense, now may be the time to consider an extended service plan for your vehicle.