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Thread: Calvinist Summary

  1. #1

    Calvinist Summary

    Here's how a Calvinist defines his view. How would you respond (agree or disagree).

    Man is a sinner from birth he is born in to sin (Rom5:19) and he is a sinful being, God created man (1st cause) man sins willingly (2nd cause) man does not seek God,(Rom3:11) God chooses man according to his purpose and will(Rom9:23), man is hostile to God (Rom8:7) we are born of the flesh (Rom7:14)

    - Man sins

    - Man is a sinner

    - A hostile being does not choose what its hostile against

    - To be saved man must be born again

    Therefore, man does not first choose God, God chooses man, he is 1st cause for man's salavation.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    - A hostile being does not choose what its hostile against
    Nope.

  3. #3
    Don't completely agree with your depiction, because Calvinists come in many flavors. A five point Calvinist believes that man is Totally depraved and incapable of seeking God apart from the Spirit's wooing, being one of God's elect is Unconditional by God's sovereignty, atonement is Limited to the elect, God's grace is Irresistible, and the elect will Persevere in the faith. My response to that is that God's not a jerk, and only a jerk would create some people for the express purpose of having them burn in hell for eternity because they are being held accountable for a choice that they were predestined to make.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jew and Greek View Post
    Don't completely agree with your depiction, because Calvinists come in many flavors. A five point Calvinist believes that man is Totally depraved and incapable of seeking God apart from the Spirit's wooing, being one of God's elect is Unconditional by God's sovereignty, atonement is Limited to the elect, God's grace is Irresistible, and the elect will Persevere in the faith. My response to that is that God's not a jerk, and only a jerk would create some people for the express purpose of having them burn in hell for eternity because they are being held accountable for a choice that they were predestined to make.
    What I should have clarified is that this is a DIRECT QUOTE from someone who is defining their Calvinist position - I didn't add or subtract from it.

    Feel free to explain the Calvinist "flavors."

  5. #5
    Well there are what Calvinists call hyper-Calvinists who elevate the sovereignty of God to the point that it absolves man of any responsibility to live a holy life or evangelize. Then there are 4 point Calvinists who reject the doctrine of limited atonement. I've been listening to these guys for a couple of years and it's hard to really nail down what Calvinists believe, because they don't really approach ministry in a way that's consistent with what they say. If God predestined everything why do they get so upset at false doctrine and why are they so concerned about people repenting? It seems to me that they preach predestination but live free will.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    - A hostile being does not choose what its hostile against
    The gospel calls us to die to ourselves, including our propensity to be hostile towards God. This is possible when illuminated, convicted and drawn by the Spirit. It's not possible according to own desire or power. According to the Calvinist regeneration must precede faith. Just replace regeneration with illumination/conviction/drawing and the result is proper gospel.

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    curly sue (11-23-2018), Jonathan david (11-23-2018)

  9. #7
    So what is the minimum separation point between Calvinist and non-Calvinist/Arminian?

    If I were a "grand arbitrator" who wanted to get one side to drop a point OR DISAGREE TO DISAGREE to create alignment otherwise, what would that be?

  10. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    So what is the minimum separation point between Calvinist and non-Calvinist/Arminian?

    If I were a "grand arbitrator" who wanted to get one side to drop a point OR DISAGREE TO DISAGREE to create alignment otherwise, what would that be?
    Once Saved, Always Saved.

  11. #9
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan david View Post
    So what is the minimum separation point between Calvinist and non-Calvinist/Arminian?

    If I were a "grand arbitrator" who wanted to get one side to drop a point OR DISAGREE TO DISAGREE to create alignment otherwise, what would that be?
    We both agree that God has to move first, including by his Holy Spirit. To the Calvinist regeneration and the new birth precede faith which is then inevitable. To the Wesley/Arminian conviction precedes faith which is now a choice and then faith precedes regeneration and the new birth. Calvinists sometimes confuse regeneration as a package that includes the new birth and conviction which then leads to faith so it helps to separate the concepts :

    Illumination, conviction, drawing : these may come about as a sovereign act of God or may (as a process) involve the participation of the person who is still a non-believer

    Example : Paul's experience on the way to Damascus

    Regeneration, the new birth : God performs this based on the person choosing to believe

    Examples : Paul's deciding to obey Ananias' call to get baptized and receive the Holy Spirit. Paul "not being disobedient to the heavenly vision" as he told king Agrippa.

  12. #10
    I have been listening to Leighton Flowers in the topic. Very refreshing POV. He tries to find "solutions" beyond the strict Calvinism vs Arminianism divide.

    His conclusion is non-Calvinism but through exegetical process. He also has a fair approach, noting the various flavors of Calvinism.

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