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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Colonel
So where in the Bible does someone pray to God in Mary's name or in the name of a saint ?
^^Exactly
Berserk you made an issue about prayer to the Holy Spirit and then teach nonsense about Mary and the saints
A scripture comes to mind - straining out gnats and swallowing camels
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Originally Posted by
Colonel
So where in the Bible does someone pray to God in Mary's name or in the name of a saint ?
You finally admitted that you ponitifcate against Catholic distinctives without even bothering to learn how they ground their positions in Scripture. I'll give readers a few days to speculate about how that might be done.
Then I'll start a new thread that lays out their case.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Berserk
You finally admitted that you ponitifcate against Catholic distinctives without even bothering to learn how they ground their positions in Scripture. I'll give readers a few days to speculate about how that might be done.
Then I'll start a new thread that lays out their case.
Let me spell it out to you : I don't care about the details of how Catholicism defends its doctrines as long as I'm not discussing that. As far as I'm concerned we're not discussing Catholicism at all, rather we are discussing why Fundamentalist Pentecostalism shouldn't losen up its doctrinal stands and move miles in other directions including in the direction of Catholicism.
Here's 1,000,000,000,000,000 brownie points for being awsomely clever. Which impresses noone here at all.
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Administrator
Originally Posted by
Berserk
You finally admitted that you ponitifcate against Catholic distinctives without even bothering to learn how they ground their positions in Scripture. I'll give readers a few days to speculate about how that might be done.
Then I'll start a new thread that lays out their case.
Can't wait.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Berserk
You finally admitted that you ponitifcate against Catholic distinctives....
As a Cardinal I can pontificate about everything...it's my calling on this forum and duty in Christendom to make sacrosanct declarations of orthodoxy for the enlightenment of the benighted unredeemed, give knowledge to the unlearned, promote sound dogma, establish everlasting covenant and express the holy creeds for man's eternal salvation
If Catholic distinctives don't align with the Prepotence of Holy Scripture then I cast those distinctives into outer darkness
Deus misereater anima tua
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Colonel: "Let me spell it out to you : I don't care about the details of how Catholicism defends its doctrines as long as I'm not discussing that. As far as I'm concerned we're not discussing Catholicism at all, rather we are discussing why Fundamentalist Pentecostalism shouldn't losen up its doctrinal stands and move miles in other directions including in the direction of Catholicism."
Here's a thought: don't diss what you're not equipped to understand. Besides. you seem oblivious to a principle considered axiomatic in scholarly Christian circles: the better we understand alternative denominational positions, the richer our potential to defend and even upgrade our own denominational perspectives.
Cardinal TT: "Berserk you made an issue about prayer to the Holy Spirit..."
Forgive me for thinking that God's Word is more important than unbiblical Pentecostal assumptions.
Cardinal TT: "...and then teach nonsense about Mary and the saints"
First, you must learn to read instead of hiding behind your Pentecostal talking points. I haven't taught anything here "about Mary and the saints."
Second, I pray to neither Mary nor the saints. I merely object to posters like Colonel dissing Catholic positions without doing Catholics the courtesy of learning how they justify their positions on biblical grounds.
Third, when the biblical grounds for Catholic distinctives are fully explored, new light can be shed on Scripture even if we ultimately disagree with them.
Cardinal: "A scripture comes to mind - straining out gnats and swallowing camels"
A Scripture comes to mind about your poor memory or comprehension of what I posted:
"Do you have eyes, and fail to see? And do you have ears, and fail to hear? And do you not remember (Mark 8:18)?"
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Berserk
Cardinal TT: "...and then teach nonsense about Mary and the saints"
First, you must learn to read instead of hiding behind your Pentecostal talking points. I haven't taught anything here "about Mary and the saints."
Second, I pray to neither Mary nor the saints.
Without teaching you have made it clear by other posts that you believe it's scriptural that Mary and the Saints intercede for believers on earth
If I'm wrong please elucidate what you actually believe about Mary and the saints in heaven
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Senior Member
This thread has become quite simple. We are told that we shouldn't pray to Jesus or to the Holy Spirit. In the Bible, which is what I'm discussing and not Catholicism, the general rule is that people pray either directly to God or to God in Jesus' name. There's mentions of praying to "the Lord" but it's hard to tell if Jesus is being implied or if it's God. People pray "in the Holy Spirit" which is different to praying "to the Holy Spirit".
Noone in the Bible prays to Mary or to any other saint, nor do they pray to God in Mary's name or in the name of any other saint. The simple reason for that is that neither Mary nor any other saint have been given the role of being a mediator between God and mankind. The reason why people pray to God in Jesus' name is that Jesus has become a mediator between God and mankind through the new covenant. There is no other mediator, no other redeemer, no other savior.
We don't pray to the Holy Spirit but we commune with him because he has been given to be our comforter, advocate and helper. Noone else has been given that role either, whether it's Mary or any other saint. Since we commune with him and he is right here among us we can talk to him which is a form of prayer - just not the kind of prayer where a petition is made like "God send your angels". Since the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus (Phil 1:19), one can be said to commune with Jesus through his Holy Spirit and thereby talk to Jesus, the same way.
Since Jesus went away, he sent the Holy Spirit to be with us in his stead. Noone else has been sent from heaven to be with us, whether it's Mary, Elijah (as Terry Bennett believes) or any other saint. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus, no other spirit is the spirit of Jesus.
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Dr. Beserk has come here to teach us all. I actually think he will learn some things if he can be more humble ?
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