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Thread: A passage on how to handle money

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    A passage on how to handle money

    1 Cor 9:12b "Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ."

    So it is possible to hinder the gospel of Christ by one's conduct then. What is the context ?

    1 Cor 9:11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things?
    12a If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more?

    The entire passage is about rights that servants of God ought to have. The beginning of the passage mentions the right to food and drink and to travel along with a believing spouse. It doesn't mention any right to special conveniences or comforts or the amassing of personal wealth from those being ministered to. Even at this basic level, Paul questions if ministers should make use of such rights and demand material things, food and drink, accomodations for bringing one's wife etc. Why ? Because according to him such demands could hinder the gospel. What then when the demand is a gadzillion dollar business jet for a minister who rarely travels internationally ? Does that have the capacity to "hinder the gospel of Christ" ?

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    Senior Member wheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    1 Cor 9:12b "Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ."

    So it is possible to hinder the gospel of Christ by one's conduct then. What is the context ?

    1 Cor 9:11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things?
    12a If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more?

    The entire passage is about rights that servants of God ought to have. The beginning of the passage mentions the right to food and drink and to travel along with a believing spouse. It doesn't mention any right to special conveniences or comforts or the amassing of personal wealth from those being ministered to. Even at this basic level, Paul questions if ministers should make use of such rights and demand material things, food and drink, accomodations for bringing one's wife etc. Why ? Because according to him such demands could hinder the gospel. What then when the demand is a gadzillion dollar business jet for a minister who rarely travels internationally ? Does that have the capacity to "hinder the gospel of Christ" ?


    just in case...

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    This is the thread where the no-poverty-vow-taking apostle Paul who was consecrated in having what he called "plenty" would have objected to the practice of buying a private jet..hrrmm...ship off of the funds of the churches he oversaw so that he could protect the anointing and get more rest. If you don't believe that BAP, then at least believe 1 Cor 9.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    1 Cor 9:12b "Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ."

    So it is possible to hinder the gospel of Christ by one's conduct then. What is the context ?

    1 Cor 9:11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things?
    12a If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more?

    The entire passage is about rights that servants of God ought to have. The beginning of the passage mentions the right to food and drink and to travel along with a believing spouse. It doesn't mention any right to special conveniences or comforts or the amassing of personal wealth from those being ministered to. Even at this basic level, Paul questions if ministers should make use of such rights and demand material things, food and drink, accomodations for bringing one's wife etc. Why ? Because according to him such demands could hinder the gospel. What then when the demand is a gadzillion dollar business jet for a minister who rarely travels internationally ? Does that have the capacity to "hinder the gospel of Christ" ?

    Lawdy Lord Oh boy

    You really should learn context and for that in this case you should start with 1 Corinthians 3 which ultimately leads to 1 cor 9

    Here you go
    And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
    2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
    After you have meditated on that for a while then it will make sense why Paul and Barnabas couldn't exercise all the rights they had as Apostles when dealing with the Corinthian church . This is what Paul is referring to in Chapter 9 .

    If Paul had exercised his rights hitherto they wouldn't have been able to bear it but now in 1 cor 9 changes was coming they were being informed of their responsibilities . It was time for them to assume their responsibilities

    Rest assured Kenneth Copeland , Creflo Dollar etc arent looking for a bunch of carnal , baby christians who are only capable of milk and not meat to fund their ministries . . When Copeland , Duplantis etc tell their ministry partners about believing for Jets they are NOT talking to baby carnal types . They are talking to people whom have revelation of whom they are in Christ and understand Kingdom Affairs

    Thats why I keep telling some of you folks to simply mind your business and stay in your lane .The message simply isn't for you thats why all you do is criiticize ..cos you have carnal mindsets

    PS This is why kenneth Copeland has repeatedly made clear that his mandate is to preach the Meat of the Word. He is not sent to folsk whoms want to remaind baby/carnal christians whom want to debate over the tithe or want to keep track of his ministry schedule on his behalf

    Read it yourself

    http://kcm.org.uk/daily-devotional/from-milk-to-meat/
    From Milk to Meat
    Kenneth Copeland
    For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
    Hebrews 5:12
    Do you want to know why the Body of Christ has been in such a mess over the past few years? Do you want to know why the devil has been able to make a public display of our weaknesses? Do you want to know why, instead of being unified and strong, we've often been torn apart by division and criticisms that come not from without but within?

    It is because, as the Lord said in Hebrews, the people of God have need of milk and not of strong meat. They're babies! The people of God for the most part don't know His ways.

    That's why He's commissioned you and me to train believers who are unskilled in the Word of righteousness and help bring them to maturity.

    "Sure," you say, "you're a preacher, but what about me? What can I do?" Well, I'll tell you. I believe God has called us both to do something. You'll find it in Hebrews 3:13. "Exhort one another daily, while it is called today."

    That's no longer just a Bible verse to me. It's a direct command from the Lord. Gloria and I received that command a few years ago when we were preaching in Australia. It prompted us to step out in faith on daily television. But it's not a command that was just meant for us. It's one we all must obey in our own way.

    "Exhort one another daily." Pray over that scripture today, won't you? Fellowship with your Father over it. Ask Him how He wants you to fulfill that command. He may tell you to help support ministries like Gloria's and mine who teach the uncompromised Word of God daily. He may tell you to fill yourself so full of His Word that it spills out on everyone you meet and encourages them to go on–and grow on–in Jesus.

    Whatever He says, do it! There's a Church full of spiritual babies out there and more are being born all the time. You can help bring them from milk to meat. Begin to exhort them. Today.

    Scripture Study: Hebrews 3:7-19

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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    If Paul had exercised his rights hitherto they wouldn't have been able to bear it but now in 1 cor 9 changes was coming they were being informed of their responsibilities . It was time for them to assume their responsibilities
    1 Cor 9:15 But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it should be done so to me

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    1 Cor 9:15 But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it should be done so to me
    OK So Paul didnt take what was due him from the Corinthians at least in 1 Corinthians (2 Corinthians is another story) but he did so with other churches like the Philippians
    Philippians 1

    1 Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed),
    To all the saints (God’s people) in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, including the overseers and deacons: 2 Grace to you and peace [inner calm and spiritual well-being] from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.3 I thank my God in every remembrance of you, 4 always offering every prayer of mine with joy [and with specific requests] for all of you, 5 [thanking God] for your participation and partnership [both your comforting fellowship and gracious contributions] in [advancing] the good news [regarding salvation] from the first day [you heard it] until now. 6 I am convinced and confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will [continue to] perfect and complete it until the day of Christ Jesus [the time of His return].

    Phipplipans 4
    15 And you Philippians know that in the early days of preaching the gospel, after I left Macedonia, no church shared with me in the matter of [c]giving and receiving except you alone; 16 for even in Thessalonica you sent a gift more than once for my needs. 17 Not that I seek the gift itself, but I do seek the profit which increases to your [heavenly] account [the blessing which is accumulating for you]. 18 But I have received everything in full and more; I am amply supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent me. They are the fragrant aroma of an offering, an acceptable sacrifice which God welcomes and in which He delights. 19 And my God will liberally supply (fill until full) your every need according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus. 20 To our God and Father be the glory [d]forever and ever. Amen.
    "WhyCome" Paul had no problem exercising his rights with this group of believers ?

    Again the prosperity message is not for everybody its for those who are hungry for meat

  8. #7
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    2 Corinthians 11:19-20 You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise! In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or puts on airs or slaps you in the face.

    Gladly

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    OK So Paul didnt take what was due him from the Corinthians at least in 1 Corinthians (2 Corinthians is another story) but he did so with other churches like the Philippians

    "WhyCome" Paul had no problem exercising his rights with this group of believers ?

    Again the prosperity message is not for everybody its for those who are hungry for meat
    Where does it say that he "exercised his rights" with the Philippians ? The translation of chapter 1 above is quite interpretative and then you apparently interpret that again to mean that Paul made them contribute money to him. This is what the NKJV says :

    Phil 1:7 just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace.

    In chapter 4 he talks about them sending him gifts to cover his needs which is not a matter of him exercising a right to a salary. He and his coworkers were in prison for long durations and prisoners typically had to rely on being supplied by friends or family because the prison authorities would only supply them with a bare minimum to keep them alive. That is probably mostly what he is referring to since he tended to work with his hands to supply his own needs and was happy with that.

    In 2 Cor he does mention taking wages but not from the Corinthians :

    2 Cor 1:7 Did I commit sin in humbling myself that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you free of charge?
    8 I robbed other churches, taking wages from them to minister to you.
    9 And when I was present with you, and in need, I was a burden to no one, for what I lacked the brethren who came from Macedonia supplied. And in everything I kept myself from being burdensome to you, and so I will keep myself.

    So it could be that what he's specifically referring to in 1 Cor 9 is avoiding taking wages from a church he is in the process of establishing, like here :

    1 Thes 2:9 For you remember, brethren, our labor and toil; for laboring night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, we preached to you the gospel of God.

    It's clear however that Paul chose to work in order to supply his own needs to the extent that that was possible. That was impossible while in prison and also while travelling and then there were travelling expenses to take care of on top of that.

    There's nothing that suggests that he spent church money on his activities beyond a bare minimum. He could have "exercised his rights" to the max and for instance gotten his own "private ship" that would travel around the eastern Mediterranean as he directed but according to the verses in the OP, that would have "hindered the gospel".

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    Senior Member wheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Where does it say that he "exercised his rights" with the Philippians ? The translation of chapter 1 above is quite interpretative and then you apparently interpret that again to mean that Paul made them contribute money to him. This is what the NKJV says :

    Phil 1:7 just as it is right for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart, inasmuch as both in my chains and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers with me of grace.

    In chapter 4 he talks about them sending him gifts to cover his needs which is not a matter of him exercising a right to a salary. He and his coworkers were in prison for long durations and prisoners typically had to rely on being supplied by friends or family because the prison authorities would only supply them with a bare minimum to keep them alive. That is probably mostly what he is referring to since he tended to work with his hands to supply his own needs and was happy with that.

    In 2 Cor he does mention taking wages but not from the Corinthians :

    2 Cor 1:7 Did I commit sin in humbling myself that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you free of charge?
    8 I robbed other churches, taking wages from them to minister to you.
    9 And when I was present with you, and in need, I was a burden to no one, for what I lacked the brethren who came from Macedonia supplied. And in everything I kept myself from being burdensome to you, and so I will keep myself.

    So it could be that what he's specifically referring to in 1 Cor 9 is avoiding taking wages from a church he is in the process of establishing, like here :

    1 Thes 2:9 For you remember, brethren, our labor and toil; for laboring night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, we preached to you the gospel of God.

    It's clear however that Paul chose to work in order to supply his own needs to the extent that that was possible. That was impossible while in prison and also while travelling and then there were travelling expenses to take care of on top of that.

    There's nothing that suggests that he spent church money on his activities beyond a bare minimum. He could have "exercised his rights" to the max and for instance gotten his own "private ship" that would travel around the eastern Mediterranean as he directed but according to the verses in the OP, that would have "hindered the gospel".
    The ship would be fully staffed with partners rowing the ship so Paul could protect his anointing...

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheeze View Post
    The ship would be fully staffed with partners rowing the ship so Paul could protect his anointing...
    I think I can probably find a few passages where Paul talks about being full of God's power because he did not "protect his anointing". For instance 2 Cor 4 and 12.

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