Thread: A passage on how to handle money

Originally Posted by BAP

I knew you would say that but of course you overlooked the fact that the Phillipans were giving to Paul and as I noted earlier Jesus likewise had a huge donor base form which he in turn used to distribute to the poor so its a distinction really without a difference ..

Whether it was for personal use or for redistribution the pattern was that the collective money went to the Apostles first .

The topic of the original post in this thread was 1 Cor 9 where Paul talks about something that "hinders the gospel". That had to do with him being benefitted personally and it had nothing to do with overseeing the giving of a gift to the poor.

Like I said earlier, this is about what the money is spent on and nothing to do with the presence of money as such.

Originally Posted by BAP

A ministry Jet is not massive accumulation. Its simply a tool ..An efficient mode of transportation. No different from a car

It's more useful per dollar spent than spending $54,000,000 on gold bars and placing them in one's personal vault, true.

Originally Posted by Colonel

The topic of the original post in this thread was 1 Cor 9 where Paul talks about something that "hinders the gospel". That had to do with him being benefitted personally and it had nothing to do with overseeing the giving of a gift to the poor.

Like I said earlier, this is about what the money is spent on and nothing to do with the presence of money as such.

So why then does he wait until 2 Corinthians before telling them to excel in the grace of giving to the poor.

Again its a distinction without a difference since Paul would have been administering whatever they gave be it to him or to provide relief to others

Originally Posted by Colonel

It's more useful per dollar spent than spending $54,000,000 on gold bars and placing them in one's personal vault, true.

Well As I noted on the other read .. a 54 million ministry jet to the adherents of the Grasshopper gospel is little more than evidence of greed , extravagant waste or personal accumulation.

OTOH to adherents of the prosperity gospel who excel in matters of giving and receiving like the Phillipians its just another technological tool

Originally Posted by BAP

Well As I noted on the other read .. a 54 million ministry jets to the adherents of the Grasshopper gospel is little more than evidence of greed , extravagant waste or personal accumulation. OTOH to adherents of the prosperity gospel who excel in matters of giving and receiving like the Phillipians its just another technological tool

Reminds me of a pastor of a small church that had the struggling congregation agree to awarding him with a housing allowance on top of his comfortable salary. Just the kind of thing that Paul was addressing here :

1 Cor 9:15 But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it should be done so to me; for it would be better for me to die than that anyone should make my boasting void.

Which doesn't fit your amway prosperity gospel narrative at all and that is probably why I'm accused of "reeking of intellectualism" - for bringing up and expounding on the wrong verses, those found decidely outside of your cookie cutter version of everything.

Originally Posted by Colonel

That even applied to the king of Israel, according to the law :

Deut 17:14 "When you come to the land which the Lord your God is giving you, and possess it and dwell in it, and say, 'I will set a king over me like all the nations that are around me,'
15 you shall surely set a king over you whom the Lord your God chooses; one from among your brethren you shall set as king over you; you may not set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother.
16 But he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, for the Lord has said to you, 'You shall not return that way again.'
17 Neither shall he multiply wives for himself, lest his heart turn away; nor shall he greatly multiply silver and gold for himself.


The common denominator of verses 16-17 seems to be personal wealth that isn't employed for any common good. So much for trying to become rich like king Solomon.

God chose to bless Solomon by not setting any limits on him....but yes the Bible does not support the idea that God intends for all body parts to be rich like Solomon....He clearly called Paul for something very different....

Originally Posted by Quest

God chose to bless Solomon by not setting any limits on him....but yes the Bible does not support the idea that God intends for all body parts to be rich like Solomon....He clearly called Paul for something very different....

We don't have any examples in the New Testament of someone having a very different calling - a minister who amassed wealth, lived lavishly, travelled grand etc.

Originally Posted by Colonel

Reminds me of a pastor of a small church that had the struggling congregation agree to awarding him with a housing allowance on top of his comfortable salary. Just the kind of thing that Paul was addressing here :

1 Cor 9:15 But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it should be done so to me; for it would be better for me to die than that anyone should make my boasting void.

Which doesn't fit your amway prosperity gospel narrative at all and that is probably why I'm accused of "reeking of intellectualism" - for bringing up and expounding on the wrong verses, those found decidely outside of your cookie cutter version of everything.

Well perhaps if you actually refuted my Amway Prosperity Gospel you would have a point but I have already addressed all your points and put them in proper context for you so you have nothing left beyond arguments by declaration and glib repetition

As I said the prosperity gospel is not for every one and thats ok with me

Originally Posted by BAP

Well As I noted on the other read .. a 54 million ministry jet to the adherents of the Grasshopper gospel is little more than evidence of greed , extravagant waste or personal accumulation.

OTOH to adherents of the prosperity gospel who excel in matters of giving and receiving like the Phillipians its just another technological tool

There is that...the Judas heart that resented the breaking of the alabaster box and 'wasteful' pouring of it on Jesus....so it always comes down to the question, is this the Spirit leading and will He lead the supplier or is this man's greed and the foolish will supply it....truth is apart from a word from GOD on the matter we don't KNOW...God may be raising up this effort for some purpose we don't see and He may not....He certainly CAN...

I would add though that Billy Graham preached in over 185 countries and never owned a private jet...no one ever had to pay to attend his meetings and his ministry outreach puts many of these wealthy ones to shame....

Originally Posted by Quest

There is that...the Judas heart that resented the breaking of the alabaster box and 'wasteful' pouring of it on Jesus....so it always comes down to the question, is this the Spirit leading and will He lead the supplier or is this man's greed and the foolish will supply it....truth is apart from a word from GOD on the matter we don't KNOW...God may be raising up this effort for some purpose we don't see and He may not....He certainly CAN...

I would add though that Billy Graham preached in over 185 countries and never owned a private jet...no one ever had to pay to attend his meetings and his ministry outreach puts many of these wealthy ones to shame....

Actually Billy Granam Evangelistic Association does have a private Jet and his net worth was estimated at 25 million

Seel info on Jet http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft...000019902.html

See info on Networth
https://www.celebritynetworth.com/ri...ham-net-worth/

And while I dont know how much Billy Graham made anually his son Farnklin Grahm in 2008 made
https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/mone...ensation_N.htm

The biggest compensation gainer among top executives was Franklin Graham of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, whose compensation rose 534% to $633,722, much of the gain because of a $366,000 retirement payment. Graham, 57, son of Billy Graham, also earns $483,000 as CEO of charity Samaritan's Purse.

Thats almost a million bucks a year right there ....

In any case I dont know of any of these "wealthy ones" whom require people to pay for their meetings and given that most of these wealthy ones strive not to stake a salary from their ministries and rely on book sales or other private ventures for their personal income I am scratching my head as to why they would be put to shame by Billy Graham

I love the underlined portion of your post though