Thread: The most fundamental prosperity verse there is

2 Cor 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.

The context of the entire chapter (including the verse before and after the one I quoted) is a material gift to the poor believers in Jerusalem and Judea, from various churches that Paul oversaw.

I'm going to ask some questions to see what people believe about this verse :

1) When was Jesus rich and in what way(s) ?

2) When was Jesus poor and in what way(s) ?

3) When do we become rich and in what way(s) ?

4) How does Jesus' poverty make us rich ?

If you're going to change the meaning of the terms "rich" and its anti-thesis "poor" within the space of the same verse then please explain why. Please consider the larger context of the surrounding chapter.

Why did the early church need major financial support from the gentile believers when they still had the Apostle James there as well as other powerful leaders?

Did they forget Jesus Words how they will have everything pressed down, shaken together and running over?

Because not all poverty is related to lack of faith or not confessing wealth and speaking it into existence or having a poverty mentality but there are other factors at work which WOF teaching either ignores or doesn't understand.

I shared this before that I know 2 christian businessmen who have amassed 100+ million for the benefit of poor people in other nations.

They used basic bible principles without using specific WOF of confessing and standing on the Word or speaking it existence etc etc.

Maybe God prospered them because they weren't using it on their own desires for jets or excessive wealth but to help the poor which is supposed to be 'bad soil' to plant your money seed.

Can anyone tell me any WOF preachers amassing that much wealth without telling multiple hundreds of thousands of supporters and getting them to give?

Originally Posted by Cardinal TT

Why did the early church need major financial support from the gentile believers when they still had the Apostle James there as well as other powerful leaders?

Did they forget Jesus Words how they will have everything pressed down, shaken together and running over?

Because not all poverty is related to lack of faith or not confessing wealth and speaking it into existence or having a poverty mentality but there are other factors at work which WOF teaching either ignores or doesn't understand.

I shared this before that I know 2 christian businessmen who have amassed 100+ million for the benefit of poor people in other nations.

They used basic bible principles without using specific WOF of confessing and standing on the Word or speaking it existence etc etc.

Maybe God prospered them because they weren't using it on their own desires for jets or excessive wealth but to help the poor which is supposed to be 'bad soil' to plant your money seed.

Can anyone tell me any WOF preachers amassing that much wealth without telling multiple hundreds of thousands of supporters and getting them to give?

Good question but how does it relate to the verse in the OP ? That has to be one of the most fundamental verses on the topic, whatever one believes about the topic !

I'm sure we discussed this thoroughly in the past but maybe it was woffies forum

You can tell us what you think and where you are wrong I will correct you

Originally Posted by Cardinal TT

I'm sure we discussed this thoroughly in the past but maybe it was woffies forum

You can tell us what you think and where you are wrong I will correct you

That I remember, you briefly stated your opinion about it but you did not discuss it thoroughly. Something about Jesus being materially poor but I have no idea how that affects anything else that the verse says.

Originally Posted by Colonel

2 Cor 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.

The context of the entire chapter (including the verse before and after the one I quoted) is a material gift to the poor believers in Jerusalem and Judea, from various churches that Paul oversaw.

I'm going to ask some questions to see what people believe about this verse :

1) When was Jesus rich and in what way(s) ?

2) When was Jesus poor and in what way(s) ?

3) When do we become rich and in what way(s) ?

4) How does Jesus' poverty make us rich ?

If you're going to change the meaning of the terms "rich" and its anti-thesis "poor" within the space of the same verse then please explain why. Please consider the larger context of the surrounding chapter.

I know if I was reading a newspaper, and someone was talking about money (which as you noted is the context of the verse, and the whole chapter), and then they used the terms 'rich' and 'poor', it would never cross my mind to interpret 'rich' or 'poor' as something 'spiritual'.

Originally Posted by fuego

I know if I was reading a newspaper, and someone was talking about money (which as you noted is the context of the verse, and the whole chapter), and then they used the terms 'rich' and 'poor', it would never cross my mind to interpret 'rich' or 'poor' as something 'spiritual'.

So how does an exclusively literal interpretation of the terms work out with the full verse ? How does that make sense ?

I'll have a go myself.

2 Cor 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.

1) When was Jesus rich and in what way(s) ?

He was rich in heaven, in every possible way.

2) When was Jesus poor and in what way(s) ?

He became poor by becoming a human being in this world, relative to what he was in heaven. Even if he had been born as Solomon he would still have been materially poor by that definition. If the point had been that he became poor relative to his fellow human beings then there would be no need to state that he was rich before that. His being rich previously adds context to what it means that he then became poor.
Did he become spiritually poor ? Yes, he did in fact become spiritually poor as the curse of sin was laid upon him and he was forsaken by God. This only ended with the resurrection. But his (relative) material poverty paved the way for his being able to become spiritually poor and thereby taste death for us all. He had to be incarnated before he could die on the cross.

3) When do we become rich and in what way(s) ?

Since we have all the blessings of heaven in Christ, we positionally become spiritually rich with the new birth. Potentially we can obtain the fullness of spiritual riches in this life. We cannot become as materially rich in this world as we can possibly be, the riches of heaven are greater than the riches found here. One detail has to do with our physical bodies, they aren't transformed until in afterlife.
In the meantime we may be blessed materially but there is nothing that suggests that we should all become trillionaires even though it is possible for some people to become trillionaires. There is also the matter of what the material riches that we are blessed with should be spent on.

4) How does Jesus' poverty make us rich ?

His becoming poorer than he was in heaven paved the way for his becoming spiritually poor. In his death he became totally abjectly poor in both the material sense and in the spiritual sense. He had nothing, death held him indefinitely and he had no hope of any future, not according to the flesh that is. By that poverty we become rich as the heavenly blessings worthy of the righteous are poured out on us, as discussed in the previous point.

As you can see I interpret rich/poor to relate both material and also spiritual riches. The context of the surrounding verses demands a material interpretation but a spiritual interpretation is unavoidable. Noone becomes any kind of rich simply because Jesus became materially poor at some point. His spiritual poverty was the essential component in our redemption.

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I believe other similar verses work the same way, we lose houses and fields and gain the same, some people gain material ones, some spiritual ones, some both. The Laodiceans who lived in a materially wealthy city thought of themselves as rich in both ways but they were poor at least in the spiritual sense but then they could become rich at least in the spiritual sense by buying gold refined in fire from God, and that surely isn't physical gold.

Originally Posted by Cardinal TT

to help the poor which is supposed to be 'bad soil' to plant your money seed.

I think that must be as hyper-wof as it gets. I don't think any of the leaders in the Word of Faith movement teach that.

How about this for the most fundamental verse on prosperity?

Godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 1 Timothy 6:6-9