Thread: Word of Faith - "Little gods" Doctrine

Originally Posted by BAP

Why this constant need to juxtapose WOF teachers against each other ?

Kenneth Hagin with all due respect to him is not the beginning and end of all faith teaching so just because you never heard Hagin say something doesn't mean he didn't believe it or that others who said something were merely playing copycat and stretching Hagins words for shock value .

All those men and women Whose character you seem to impugn on are servants of God in their own right. They aren't merely echoing Hagin . Their ministries may not be characterized by the supernatural visitations as Hagin was but they are no less authentic .

I'm not impugning anyone's character. I'm just making an observation. As an apologist I can tell you that the two names brought up most frequently by WoF opponents are Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland. Benny Hinn isn't WoF of course, but Copeland is, so you have to clarify some things for people in order to establish what WoF theology is and what it isn't.

Kenneth Hagin was the leader of the WoF movement, so if you want to examine WoF theology you would logically want to consider what he taught, just as you would want to examine what Calvin taught in a study of Calvinism. Kenneth Copeland started his ministry in 1967 in Tulsa. When I moved to Tulsa in 1982 I met people who remembered that when he started out he was teaching Kenneth Hagin's messages practically word for word. He was told that he needed to come up with his own messages so he did, and often he would venture so far out there that eventually he was no longer invited to Hagin events. A lot of people don't realize this because WoF people tend not to air their dirty laundry, but there are at least two wings of the WoF movement. In the Hagin wing you see mostly Rhema graduates and people who have worked closely with the Hagins for years. The other wing is the Copeland, Savelle, Dollar, Duplantis wing - the televangelists - which is where most of the controversy originates IMO. Sorry if that sounds judgmental, but that's the way I see it.

Originally Posted by Jew and Greek

I'm not impugning anyone's character. I'm just making an observation. As an apologist I can tell you that the two names brought up most frequently by WoF opponents are Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland. Benny Hinn isn't WoF of course, but Copeland is, so you have to clarify some things for people in order to establish what WoF theology is and what it isn't.

Kenneth Hagin was the leader of the WoF movement, so if you want to examine WoF theology you would logically want to consider what he taught, just as you would want to examine what Calvin taught in a study of Calvinism. Kenneth Copeland started his ministry in 1967 in Tulsa. When I moved to Tulsa in 1982 I met people who remembered that when he started out he was teaching Kenneth Hagin's messages practically word for word. He was told that he needed to come up with his own messages so he did, and often he would venture so far out there that eventually he was no longer invited to Hagin events. A lot of people don't realize this because WoF people tend not to air their dirty laundry, but there are at least two wings of the WoF movement. In the Hagin wing you see mostly Rhema graduates and people who have worked closely with the Hagins for years. The other wing is the Copeland, Savelle, Dollar, Duplantis wing - the televangelists - which is where most of the controversy originates IMO. Sorry if that sounds judgmental, but that's the way I see it.

Nothing you are saying here is new to me . To be more accurate I would call it the Kenneth Hagin wing and the Oral Roberts wing if we must make that distinction .

Point again was that while Hagin may be considered the father of the faith movement as a matter of commentary he was not the end all be all of the faith movement and he didn't OWN the message .

So any deviation from Hagin on any topic should not necessarily be characterized as a corruption of Hagins message as you implied when you accused Copeland of saying things that Hagin didn't say only for shock value.

The fact that you didn't Hear Hagin say it doesn't mean it' lacks legitimacy and the fact that it may have shocked you doesn't mean it was said for shock value purposes .

Bottom line Hagin didn't know it all . Jesus himself told Hagin at several points that there is a Lot he didn't know so while Hagin should certainly be respected and honored for the man of God that he was, the validity of other ministries shouldn't be measured against Hagin

Also as far as the Two WIngs go in all honestly these days I fail to see the distinction .

Billye Brimm whom was close to the Hagins is for all intents and purposes best friends with Gloria Copeland and Keith Moore and Kenneth Copeland ministries are very much intertwined as is Patsy Cameneti among others

Suffice to say that these wings in practicality and the so called dirty laundry you speak of exist only in the Minds of people who are looking for them

When I moved to Tulsa in 1982 I met people who remembered that when he started out he was teaching Kenneth Hagin's messages practically word for word. He was told that he needed to come up with his own messages so he did, and often he would venture so far out there that eventually he was no longer invited to Hagin events.

Originally Posted by Valiant Woman

I don't believe none of it. Hearsay as far as I'm concerned. Sounds like folks gossiping and making assumptions about things they know nothing about. Looking at brother Hagin's videos, I see both Gloria and Kenneth in the meetings. There's even one, I believe it's in the late 90's where brother Hagin lay hands on Kenneth.

Yeah. I don't believe that to be so either. I can't recall every hearing Copeland 'venture so far out there'.

Originally Posted by Smitty

2 Peter 1:4 "...becoming partakers with the divine nature." Of coarse, I don't believe we become "little gods" as some have used this verse to say we can obtain deity. We do possess the righteousness of God and share fellowship with the godhead though. The Holy Spirit is within Christians, therefore the divine nature is part of the new birth in which God dwells within the recreated human spirit. Furthermore, as partakers of the divine nature, we anticipate to take part in the immortality and incorruption of God. The person who is Holy Spirit indwelt, will, like God, live in the immortal sphere and like Him, and will not be tainted with any corruption. The Christian will live immortally in the incorruptible heavenly realm.

Yes and that is apparently what Hagin meant in that leaflet. If he had done better than to redefine theological terms beyond recognition then quotes from his leaflet where his redefinition are conveniently left out wouldn't have been all over the internet.

Originally Posted by Jew and Greek

I'm not impugning anyone's character. I'm just making an observation. As an apologist I can tell you that the two names brought up most frequently by WoF opponents are Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland. Benny Hinn isn't WoF of course, but Copeland is, so you have to clarify some things for people in order to establish what WoF theology is and what it isn't.

Kenneth Hagin was the leader of the WoF movement, so if you want to examine WoF theology you would logically want to consider what he taught, just as you would want to examine what Calvin taught in a study of Calvinism. Kenneth Copeland started his ministry in 1967 in Tulsa. When I moved to Tulsa in 1982 I met people who remembered that when he started out he was teaching Kenneth Hagin's messages practically word for word. He was told that he needed to come up with his own messages so he did, and often he would venture so far out there that eventually he was no longer invited to Hagin events. A lot of people don't realize this because WoF people tend not to air their dirty laundry, but there are at least two wings of the WoF movement. In the Hagin wing you see mostly Rhema graduates and people who have worked closely with the Hagins for years. The other wing is the Copeland, Savelle, Dollar, Duplantis wing - the televangelists - which is where most of the controversy originates IMO. Sorry if that sounds judgmental, but that's the way I see it.

You make it sound like Copeland became a well known preacher for totally different reasons than his ability to preach in a meaningful way. He was a Billboard top 40 artist but that was 10 years before, in 1957.

Originally Posted by fuego

Yeah. I don't believe that to be so either. I can't recall every hearing Copeland 'venture so far out there'.

There are plenty of extravagant Copeland quotes. There's a reason why the HH crowd on CARM 20 years ago typically picked Copeland and Benny Hinn, just like Jew&Greek said above. Benny Hinn was at his worst at that time with Adam flying around in the sky like superman, God being a nine-ity and so forth. Benny Hinn repented from a lot of stuff later but has Copeland ever stated that he was wrong or has exaggerated about anything ?

Originally Posted by wheeze

I have the feeling that Wheeze thinks that the Copeland controversy is worse than what Jew&Greek insinuates above. Wheeze was at ORU in the seventies and worked in Christian television broadcasting after that.