Thread: 5:28-29 Salvation by Works?

Originally Posted by Colonel

Jesus also talks about those who are faithful in little being counted faithful in greater things, with examples of such promotions. This does not mean that everyone who ends up on television or before large congregations was promoted to that place by God. It doesn't mean that "greater things" necessarily means becoming more "visible" either.

SO very true...success as man sees it, whether in things of faith or things in the natural, are NOT indicators of God's approval or disapproval...promotion or not...calling or not....this is the key warning on the 'prosperity message' that that term prosperity MUST be defined by God....

Originally Posted by Smitty

Some are promoted by self because there is an opportunity to make a lot of money. Take Peter Popoff for example. He was busted 25 years ago for a scam. He took a few years off and now he's been back on television for several years promoting his miracle water. Some ministers who pastor mega churches could never draw a salary equal to lets say a lawyer or surgeon. But if they pastor a large flock like 3000-5000 people, and these people are tithing, they can easily pocket $100,000 to $200,000 or more annually. I know such a pastor here in the Pacific Northwest. He has a high school diploma and D.D. (diploma mill) behind his name and this guy lives in a half a million dollar house, owns a large boat, and has several Harleys. No way he could have accumulated all this wealth if he was not "called to the ministry." Some are really called and some call themselves because of the lucrative opportunity. I think it was that scammer L. Ron Hubbard, the guy who started Scientology who said, "The easiest way to make a million bucks is to start your own religion." Maybe these fat salaried television pastor's haven't gone that far, but a lot of them couldn't live the $$$"Abundant"$$$ life without being in the "ministry." Many of them would be common folk, or a blue collar worker if they didn't pastor or start a "ministry." Someone may not like what I've posted here. Well, I've got to call it the way I see it.

Someone without an education manages to make money by heading a ministry. Doesn't necessarily mean that God is behind it. There are plenty of similar stories that don't involve Christianity at all.

Originally Posted by Smitty

In John 5:28-29 Jesus is in a debate with the Judean Jews, talking about the authority of the Son of Man to command the resurrection of the dead.
He then adds a comment that refers to the two classes of resurrected people, not as believers and unbelievers, but as
"those who have done good" and "those who have done evil."

Does not this indicate that eternal life is given on the basis of one's deeds? Is this not the very salvation by works that Luther and the other Reformers were so much against?

Not at all.

We are saved, regenerated, born again, through faith in Jesus Christ.


That is without question.


Understanding that once we are born again, and have a new divine nature, empowered by the Holy Spirit, we have the authority and power, and dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh and the devil.


We now have the abilility to do what we could not do without, the power of the Spirit, working through our new nature.


We who have the Spirit are now able to live according to the Spirit.

However, we can also live according to the flesh as well.


Understand this principle that John teaches us -



Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


- He who practices righteousness is righteous


There is therefore now nocondemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walkaccording to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Here are the two choices for those who are in Christ Jesus to live:
according to the flesh
according to the Spirit.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

Paul is exhorting brethren, those who are in Christ Jesus, not to live according to the flesh.

Here's why -

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13

Which is why a brother in Christ, someone who is in Christ Jesus, can indeed become lost.

Paul explains what the works of the flesh are to us, so you want beconfused.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you intime past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul writing to the Church in Galatia, teaches these brothers in Christ Jesus the remedy for practicing the works ofthe flesh.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.Galatians 5:16


Again

8 For he who sows to his flesh will ofthe flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:8




JLB

Originally Posted by Smitty

Thank you for the above comments.

I might add that sanctification starts at the point of regeneration and increases throughout life (spiritual growth). At conversion, Paul says, Christians are "set free from sin" (Rm 6:18) and so must consider themselves "dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus...for sin will not have no dominion" over them (Rm 6:11, 14). This initial break from the power of sin means that believers are no longer ruled or dominated by sin and no longer love to sin.

But since sanctification is a process, we will never be completely free from sin in this life. As 1 John 1:8 says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
Or, as it is written in Ecclesiastes 7:20, "Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins." Knowing this, Jesus commanded His disciples to pray forgive us our sins (Lk 11:4). It is at death when a believer goes home to be with the Lord, their sanctification is partially completed because their souls are set free from indwelling sin and made perfect. Let me close this out by saying, in another sense, sanctification, since it involves the whole person (body and soul), will not be complete until the Lord returns and transforms "our lowly body to be like His glorious body" (Phil 3:21). It will be at that point that our bodies too will be made perfect and will be free from all influences of sin.

Sanctification is a process for those believers who choose to be sanctified, by walking according to the Spirit.

For those who are in Christ, the choice remains to walk according to the flesh and become a slave again to the lustful desires of the flesh, or by the Spirit, put to death the deeds of the flesh.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

- no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh


Paul says it this way to the Galatians -


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-22


those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.



JLB