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Thread: 5:28-29 Salvation by Works?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Many believers don't want to acknowledge that there will be chastening in heaven at the judgement
    God is love and everyone will know that but believers will still be rebuked and feel ashamed. God will humble some to reveal their prideful hearts and how they treated people on earth
    Even our very MOTIVES will be EXPOSED

    There will be certain blessings that will be withheld for periods of time

    When we stand before the ALL KNOWING God we can no longer pretend to be super spiritual or holy or anointed or powerful but our very lives will be exposed like a powerful spotlight. All fakery and pretense will flee


    Yikes


    When I was a young believer I had an experience where a strong sense of shame came over me - it was not related to sin nor was there any evil or demonic connection to it.
    It was supernatural and the Lord showed me that is what we will experience at the judgment standing before God if we don't mature and stay carnal
    I am the first to admit at times I have failed God but at the back of my mind this experience challenges me to keep going forward

    I have also seen in the spirit a powerful 'spotlight' representing the EYES of God - bright white light that will shine over us and can expose every minute detail and motive

    All that I wrote can be found in the scriptures
    Luke 12:1 “Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
    2 But there is nothing covered up that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.
    3 Accordingly, whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed upon the housetops.

    I'm not sure where "blessings will be withheld for a time" can be found, the handing out of rewards seem to be final.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    The parable of the talents found over in Matthew 25:14-30 and Luke 19:12-27 are quite convicting because what Jesus is saying in these two passages of Scripture seems to point and can relate to believers. That is, Christians are entrusted with certain things and responsibilities, and will give an account of their stewardship. I can hear the Lord saying that He intends for us to be at "work" when He returns in both of these texts.

    The Bible is clear we are not saved be performing good works, but we are saved unto good works (Eph 2:8-10). Neither Should we be compelled to do some type of religious good works in our own ability, because this would amount to nothing more than piling up a bunch of filthy rags (Isa 64:6).

    Kingdom works is not necessarily being called to the five fold ministry or functioning in some type of pulpit ministry. For the majority of us, God seems more interested in our time, talents, and treasure which would lead to a ministry of "helps" such as giving, involved in assistance in a local body of believers, helping meet the needs of those who are less fortunate than us, or availability in propagating and supporting gospel outreach (witnessing and evangelism).

    The bottom line is works are the result of faith, and should not be a substitute for faith. Works are the "fruits" that are evidence of true faith (James 2). Works that produce a "profit" for the Kingdom will be the basis for our rewards. Simply stated, to the degree to which our earthly labor has been faithful and profitable, will determine our reward when we stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

    The Lord Jesus Christ is clear that He intends for us to be found "at work" when He returns.

    "For this reason you be ready too; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will. Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his Master put in charge of His household to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that slave whom his Master finds so doing when He returns. Truly I say to you, that He will put him in charge of all His possessions (Matt 24:44-47).

    What is our unique contribution to the kingdom of God? What is it we want Him to find us doing when He returns? Lets not bury what God has entrusted to us. We need to use our talents for the glory of God. Then we will be assured to hear Him say, "Well done, good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of your Lord." Thus, having confidence when we each stand before Him.
    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
    In John 5:28-29 Jesus is in a debate with the Judean Jews, talking about the authority of the Son of Man to command the resurrection of the dead.
    He then adds a comment that refers to the two classes of resurrected people, not as believers and unbelievers, but as
    "those who have done good" and "those who have done evil."

    Does not this indicate that eternal life is given on the basis of one's deeds? Is this not the very salvation by works that Luther and the other Reformers were so much against?
    I interpret that to simply mean evil are those rejecting Christ and good are those who have accepted Him...Now if we were to form an outline and put sub subjects under each there would be 1 that speaks of obedience...

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    "What is our unique contribution to the kingdom of God? What is it we want Him to find us doing when He returns? Lets not bury what God has entrusted to us. We need to use our talents for the glory of God. Then we will be assured to hear Him say, "Well done, good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of your Lord." Thus, having confidence when we each stand before Him."

    I am reminded of Pau's teaching to Corinth regarding the gifts and callings of God. Each of us has the Spirit who takes instructions from the HEAD, who is Jesus and speaks those to each of us...If I am listening and being obedient to the Spirit I will inevitably be utilizing His gifts and calling through my life...the talents vary with each of us but they are specific to each of us as well....

  6. #15
    Smitty said:
    Kingdom works is not necessarily being called to the five fold ministry or functioning in some type of pulpit ministry. For the majority of us, God seems more interested in our time, talents, and treasure which would lead to a ministry of "helps" such as giving, involved in assistance in a local body of believers, helping meet the needs of those who are less fortunate than us, or availability in propagating and supporting gospel outreach (witnessing and evangelism).
    Well said! I think there has been a lot of mis-teaching on this subject. So many are running around trying to wear the General's uniform before they have been to boot camp. The words and teaching of calling, destiny and ministry have been greatly mis taught.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    We really do complicate things too much...IMHO....Jesus is the head of the Kingdom or rulership...so each of us just needs to find and follow the leading of the Spirit....even if that is nothing more than knitting caps for premature babies.....or serving in a soup line.....I would add we should expect His continual speaking and leading that can mean imparting wisdom or healing or signs and wonders like multiplying food....while we do those things....

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  10. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    We really do complicate things too much...IMHO....Jesus is the head of the Kingdom or rulership...so each of us just needs to find and follow the leading of the Spirit....even if that is nothing more than knitting caps for premature babies.....or serving in a soup line.....I would add we should expect His continual speaking and leading that can mean imparting wisdom or healing or signs and wonders like multiplying food....while we do those things....
    Yes! I agree.

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  12. #18
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curly sue View Post
    Smitty said:


    Well said! I think there has been a lot of mis-teaching on this subject. So many are running around trying to wear the General's uniform before they have been to boot camp. The words and teaching of calling, destiny and ministry have been greatly mis taught.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    We really do complicate things too much...IMHO....Jesus is the head of the Kingdom or rulership...so each of us just needs to find and follow the leading of the Spirit....even if that is nothing more than knitting caps for premature babies.....or serving in a soup line.....I would add we should expect His continual speaking and leading that can mean imparting wisdom or healing or signs and wonders like multiplying food....while we do those things....

    I agree with both of you.
    We don't get commended just because we are a well known minister on TV or trying to be the next Billy Graham. There is alot of pressure for Christians to perform to a man made agenda.
    God will judge according to how faithful we are to him and what he tells us to do even very basic and simple things.

    If God calls someone to a prominent ministry then they have to obey but it doesn't make them special or more important. Some have great ministries but little character and this will be revealed at the judgement seat.

    Some of the best Christians are the ones in the background faithfully serving and loving God

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  14. #19
    Senior Member Smitty's Avatar
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    Great comments and yes, I agree with everyone.

    If you put God First, you have Him at Last.

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  16. #20
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I agree with both of you.
    We don't get commended just because we are a well known minister on TV or trying to be the next Billy Graham. There is alot of pressure for Christians to perform to a man made agenda.
    God will judge according to how faithful we are to him and what he tells us to do even very basic and simple things.

    If God calls someone to a prominent ministry then they have to obey but it doesn't make them special or more important. Some have great ministries but little character and this will be revealed at the judgement seat.

    Some of the best Christians are the ones in the background faithfully serving and loving God
    Jesus also talks about those who are faithful in little being counted faithful in greater things, with examples of such promotions. This does not mean that everyone who ends up on television or before large congregations was promoted to that place by God. It doesn't mean that "greater things" necessarily means becoming more "visible" either.

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