Thread: "Relationships With Jesus are Dangerous", says Pope

Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33

This pope is a dope who cannot cope while sliding down a slippery slope trying to remove all hope.

Still better than Ratzinger.

The 2 minute video I saw in the link did not say this at all...I need to hear the entire speech to gather the meaning..

All the inserted video addressed was function as a Christian outside of the church....

He did say 'outside the communion and mediation of the church'. This is not new for Catholicism....not sure why it is being viewed as some new phenomenon?

He ends with '..being a Christian means belonging to the church.'

In context h is not saying anything I have not heard from pastors and teachers...that we cannot function as an island or we need to not see ourselves as individuals but members....but of course as a Catholic he means Catholicism as 'the church' I guess.

He did not say a relationship with Jesus was dangerous...He essentially said a relationship with Jesus that does not acknowledge the need to be part of 'the church' is dangerous...

Originally Posted by Quest

The 2 minute video I saw in the link did not say this at all...I need to hear the entire speech to gather the meaning..

All the inserted video addressed was function as a Christian outside of the church....

He did say 'outside the communion and mediation of the church'. This is not new for Catholicism....not sure why it is being viewed as some new phenomenon?

He ends with '..being a Christian means belonging to the church.'

In context h is not saying anything I have not heard from pastors and teachers...that we cannot function as an island or we need to not see ourselves as individuals but members....but of course as a Catholic he means Catholicism as 'the church' I guess.

He did not say a relationship with Jesus was dangerous...He essentially said a relationship with Jesus that does not acknowledge the need to be part of 'the church' is dangerous...

This makes the most sense to me, as the RC finds it fundamental to be the "final guide and authority" on Catholics relationship to Jesus.
I have had several funerals in my mostly Catholic family the last few years. I make it a point to always speak up specifically on having a relationship with Jesus. The priest even gave a positive reaction, that "I made his job easier." :)

SIDE NOTE: I will be speaking at another Catholic service next week for my recently-departed mother (born-again). I insisted on certain aspects of the service, such as honoring Jesus and the Father alone - deleting the "Ave Maria," and adding a Terry Macalmon praise song instead.

Originally Posted by Jonathan david

This makes the most sense to me, as the RC finds it fundamental to be the "final guide and authority" on Catholics relationship to Jesus.
I have had several funerals in my mostly Catholic family the last few years. I make it a point to always speak up specifically on having a relationship with Jesus. The priest even gave a positive reaction, that "I made his job easier." :)

SIDE NOTE: I will be speaking at another Catholic service next week for my recently-departed mother (born-again). I insisted on certain aspects of the service, such as honoring Jesus and the Father alone - deleting the "Ave Maria," and adding a Terry Macalmon praise song instead.

On the other hand he seems very ecumenical even towards other religions and promotes works as good enough for salvation for those people. So there are many levels to this.

Seems to me that this is just another instance in which a shady news outlet takes a few words out of context in an attempt to create the illusion that some kind of shocking statement has been made.

Here's a segment of the pope’s statement:

1. We are not isolated and we are not Christians on an individual basis, each one on his or her own, no, our Christian identity is to belong! We are Christians because we belong to the Church. It is like a last name: if the first name is “I am Christian”, the last name is “I belong to the Church”. It is so beautiful to observe how this belonging is also expressed in the name God gives to himself. In answer to Moses in that wonderful episode of the “burning bush”, he defines himself as the God of the fathers (cf. Ex 3:15). He doesn’t say: I am the Omnipotent One..., no: I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob. In this way He reveals himself as the God who made an alliance with our fathers and remains ever faithful to his pact, and calls us to enter into this relationship which precedes us. God’s relationship with his people precedes us all, it comes from that time.

2. In this sense, one’s thought goes in the first place, with gratitude, to those who went before us and who welcomed us into the Church. No one becomes Christian on his or her own! Is that clear? No one becomes Christian by him- or herself. Christians are not made in a laboratory. A Christian is part of a people who comes from afar. The Christian belongs to a people called the Church and this Church is what makes him or her Christian, on the day of Baptism, and then in the course of catechesis, and so on. But no one, no one becomes Christian on his or her own. If we believe, if we know how to pray, if we acknowledge the Lord and can listen to his Word, if we feel him close to us and recognize him in our brothers and sisters, it is because others, before us, lived the faith and then transmitted it to us. We have received the faith from our fathers, from our ancestors, and they have instructed us in it. If we think about it carefully, who knows how many beloved faces pass before our eyes at this moment: it could be the face of our parents who requested our Baptism; that of our grandparents or of some family member who taught us how to make the sign of the Cross and to recite our first prayers. I always remember the face of the nun who taught me the Catechism, but she always comes to mind — she is in Heaven for sure, because she was a holy woman — I always remember her and give thanks to God for this sister. Or it could be the face of the parish priest, of another priest or a sister or a catechist, who transmitted the contents of the faith to us and helped us to grow as Christians.... So, this is the Church: one great family, where we are welcomed and learn to live as believers and disciples of the Lord Jesus.

3. We are able to live this journey not only because of others, but together with others. In the Church there is no “do it yourself”, there are no “free agents”. How many times did Pope Benedict “describe the Church as an ecclesial ‘we’”! At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church...”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good. There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations. These are, as the great Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us.... But the Lord entrusted his message of salvation to a few human beings, to us all, to a few witnesses; and it is in our brothers and in our sisters, with their gifts and limitations, that he comes to meet us and make himself known. And this is what it means to belong to the Church. Remember this well: to be Christian means belonging to the Church. The first name is “Christian”, the last name is “belonging to the Church”.

Dear friends, let us ask the Lord, through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, Mother of the Church, for the grace never to fall into the temptation of thinking we can make it without the others, that we can get along without the Church, that we can save ourselves on our own, of being Christians from the laboratory. On the contrary, you cannot love God without loving your brothers, you cannot love God outside of the Church; you cannot be in communion with God without being so in the Church, and we cannot be good Christians if we are not together with those who seek to follow the Lord Jesus, as one single people, one single body, and this is the Church. Thank you. https://w2.vatican.va/content/france...-generale.html


And here is how this statement was described by the shady news outlet:

Pope Francis has been caught on camera attempting to steer his flock away from Jesus Christ, warning that “having a personal relationship with Jesus is dangerous and very harmful“.

Breaking with centuries of Christian tradition, Pope Francis told a crowd of 33,000 Catholics in Rome that “a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ” must be avoided at all costs, raising fears he is an illegitimate pope with a sinister agenda. http://yournewswire.com/pope-francis-jesus-dangerous/

There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations

Yeah, that's very different to the news version. He's basically saying that one can only have that inside the Catholic church. Which is the usual RCC thing.

Originally Posted by njtom

Seems to me that this is just another instance in which a shady news outlet takes a few words out of context in an attempt to create the illusion that some kind of shocking statement has been made.


Dear friends, let us ask the Lord, through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, Mother of the Church,


And here is how this statement was described by the shady news outlet:

Pope Francis has been caught on camera attempting to steer his flock away from Jesus Christ, warning that “having a personal relationship with Jesus is dangerous and very harmful“.

Breaking with centuries of Christian tradition, Pope Francis told a crowd of 33,000 Catholics in Rome that “a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ” must be avoided at all costs, raising fears he is an illegitimate pope with a sinister agenda. http://yournewswire.com/pope-francis-jesus-dangerous/

Tom

Why call the news outlet 'shady' and IGNORE when the Pope says those blasphemous words that we need intercession of the Virgin Mary, mother of the church and you say nothing

Mary doesn't intercede for us before God and neither is she the mother of the church

What the Pope said about Mary is idolatry, blasphemy and a slap in the face of Christ being the only true redeemer and mediator

Originally Posted by Quest

The 2 minute video I saw in the link did not say this at all...I need to hear the entire speech to gather the meaning..

All the inserted video addressed was function as a Christian outside of the church....

He did say 'outside the communion and mediation of the church'. This is not new for Catholicism....not sure why it is being viewed as some new phenomenon?

He ends with '..being a Christian means belonging to the church.'

In context h is not saying anything I have not heard from pastors and teachers...that we cannot function as an island or we need to not see ourselves as individuals but members....but of course as a Catholic he means Catholicism as 'the church' I guess.

He did not say a relationship with Jesus was dangerous...He essentially said a relationship with Jesus that does not acknowledge the need to be part of 'the church' is dangerous...

This makes more sense.