Thread: Prosperity

Originally Posted by Colonel

Grumpy about something, Nikos ?

Love that picture! I had a Siamese and they can really be finicky...he was a Siamese named Pablo

I think that cat is doing close to nothing, it might even be purring (owner's finger under its chin). It's just "blessed" with a grumpy look. I must admit I look a little bit like that myself, I sort of don't smile unless I do smile. At least I can smile, I'm not sure if Grumpy Cat can do anything else than look like that.

1 Tim 6:6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.

Paul takes up the theme from the sermon of the mount as we saw in Matthew 6. He is addressing basic needs here. There isn't much more than that that one needs, in terms of material objects.

6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

There is nothing wrong with being rich or else Abraham would have been a sinful man. Same with Job and he was blessed beyond his initial level of prosperity at the end of the book. Trying to become rich for the sake of being rich is a different matter. That is hoarding, like the rich fool that Quest mentioned was guilty of. Some people may try to get rich so that their children will have an inheritance, I suppose that is not quite the same thing. But too much of that may teach them to feel secure about insecure riches and to rely on their parents and the upcoming inheritance. Some employ their riches and sow into the kingdom of God off of the surplus that their riches create. That is comparable to the man with the talents who gained more talents for his master. Some become rich then give their way down to something reasonable to leave as an inheritance. There are many ways of employing riches beyond hoarding them. Spending it all on an ungodly lifestyle is of course an other version.

6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Paul is referring to the hoarder in the above verse rather than to the ungodly spender. The hoarder doesn't spend his money on anything including ungodliness but his love of money is still a root of all kinds of evil. Including greed, fraud, theft, exploitation, slavery, a generally cold heart etc.

6:17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18 Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Riches may function as a snare, especially to those who tried hard to get rich so they could be rich.

Sell all you have and give to the poor.

Originally Posted by Nikos

Sell all you have and give to the poor.

And be like the Jain monks of India ? They walk around naked and beg for a bowl of rice to eat each day, all their lives. One could do that but then it would lead nowhere. Better to live a blessed life yet liberated from one's possessions in one's heart.

Luke 14:33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

1 Cor 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away.

Notice that Paul didn't tell the Corinthians not to marry, not to buy and not to "use this world". He's talking about an attitude. It's perfectly possible for those who are rich to take on this attitude and add that to their doing good, being rich in good works, ready to give and willing to share (1 Tim 6)

Originally Posted by Nikos

Sell all you have and give to the poor.

He did not give that specific instruction to ALL...otherwise I would agree with you

Luke 22:35-36

35And He said to them, "When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?" They said, "No, nothing." 36And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.…

Let's have a look at one of the richest men who ever lived, king Solomon :

Eccl 1:1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
***
2:1 I said to myself, “Come now, I will test you with pleasure to find out what is good.” But that also proved to be meaningless. 2 “Laughter,” I said, “is madness. And what does pleasure accomplish?” 3 I tried cheering myself with wine, and embracing folly—my mind still guiding me with wisdom. I wanted to see what was good for people to do under the heavens during the few days of their lives.
4 I undertook great projects: I built houses for myself and planted vineyards. 5 I made gardens and parks and planted all kinds of fruit trees in them. 6 I made reservoirs to water groves of flourishing trees. 7 I bought male and female slaves and had other slaves who were born in my house. I also owned more herds and flocks than anyone in Jerusalem before me. 8 I amassed silver and gold for myself, and the treasure of kings and provinces. I acquired male and female singers, and a harem as well—the delights of a man’s heart. 9 I became greater by far than anyone in Jerusalem before me. In all this my wisdom stayed with me.
10 I denied myself nothing my eyes desired;
I refused my heart no pleasure.
My heart took delight in all my labor,
and this was the reward for all my toil.
11 Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done
and what I had toiled to achieve,
everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind;
nothing was gained under the sun.

Take it from one of the richest men who ever lived and who was speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Any kind of riches or pleasures or activities will not satisfy the heart. He ought to know. But he didn't have an Iphone nor could he travel business class on a jet nor did he have digital access to all kinds of entertainment so what would he know ? Well those things are details and they pertain to our age, to what we are used to. I remember playing computer games in the 1980s and how awesome some of those games were. Computer games have improved a lot in the technical sense since then but nothing beats those old games. Playing them at that time when they were brand new and novelties, that is. This is just an example. King Solomon had it all, in the material sense. Still he discovered that it was all meaningless, a vanity.

The richest man today, Bill Gates, once said that when one gets beyond a certain point with wealth then no amount of money will enable one to live better, dine better etc. There is a limit to it all. Like king Solomon, he had assessed the true worth of those things in and of themselves. People chase after those things and when they get them they think and behave as if they have found the proverbial Holy Grail but they are imagining things and perhaps paying respect to corresponding idols in their hearts, idols that they have set up in their hearts to worship them instead of to worship God in Spirit and truth. King Solomon is telling the truth.

Here is another one of the richest men who ever lived, king David, after he had sinned with Bathseba :

Psalm 51:11 Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.

Can you hear the man's cry ? He had pretty much everything that his son Solomon had but none of that was able to satisfy him, including the breathtaking wife of Uriah, Bathseba. He was also anointed with the Holy Spirit and if he would lose the Holy Spirit then the rest would amount to vanity.

Psalm 63:2 I have seen you in the sanctuary
and beheld your power and your glory.
3 Because your love is better than life,
my lips will glorify you.
4 I will praise you as long as I live,
and in your name I will lift up my hands.
5 My soul will be satisfied as with the richest of foods;
with singing lips my mouth will praise you.

Now that is something else. There is no meaninglessness or vanity involved there. Just a pure fire that is able to fill the human being completely.

John 3:34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.

The Holy Spirit is without measure. There is no limit to his ability to fill the human being. King David had seen enough of that to talk like he did, even in the face of his having all things material, just like king Solomon had. During the old covenant, only specific people were anointed with the Holy Spirit. Today that is not the case.

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

That's the greatest among all the old covenant prophets speaking, John the Baptist. He told the crowds that Jesus would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and fire. Not material possessions and vanity. The Holy Spirit and fire. Then he would bless them with abundance on top of that. Some of them would become far richer in the Holy Spirit and fire than king David was, who had seen the glory and power of God in the sanctuary and who cried for God not to take the Holy Spirit from him. The same is the case today.

I've watched people who had nothing but what they could dig out of the ground or pick from trees and bushes receive the Holy Spirit and fire. They became richer men and women than any of the rulers of their region were according to the flesh. That is true prosperity. The rest follows after and becomes part of that package. Unless the goal is to get hold of those material things, then the gates of heaven will be closed and the seeker will have to work those things up himself. Which they sometimes manage to do and then they call themselves blessed by God.

Originally Posted by Nikos

Sell all you have and give to the poor.

Wouldn't it be great to get just ONE prosperity preacher say he received this verse as a rhema word and gave everything away

Originally Posted by Cardinal TT

Wouldn't it be great to get just ONE prosperity preacher say he received this verse as a rhema word and gave everything away

I read a book by some Word-of-Faith minister, I think it was a woman, where she talked about how God had lead her to give away her house and then some other minister showed up and gave her a new one. I'm not sure how much money she had besides the house and if that made her poor for a time. She called that faith but I got the feeling that they had this thing about shuffling their belongings around and calling that great faith. I'm not sure though.