Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 88

Thread: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    440
    Thanked: 188
    Blog Entries
    270

    Post The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

    -
    My first encounter with a Watchtower Society missionary (a.k.a. Jehovah's Witness) occurred in 1969. At the time I was young and naïve, and thus assumed that the hewer of wood, and hauler of water who came down the driveway was a fellow Christian. But when I talked this over with a Protestant church elder he became alarmed; and urged me to read a little book titled 30 Years A Watchtower Slave by William J. Schnell; whom the Society at one time demonized as an agent of Satan. I would not be surprised if it still does.

    After getting my eyes opened by Mr. Schnell's book, I was afterwards steered towards another book titled Kingdom Of The Cults by Walter Martin. No doubt the Society demonizes Mr. Martin too.

    Around late 1980, my wife and I attended a series of classes sponsored by a local church titled "How To Witness To Jehovah's Witnesses". The instructor (call him Pete) was an ex Witness who had been in the Watch Tower Society system for near three decades and was a wide-area manager before terminating his association with the Society; so he knew the ins and outs of its doctrines pretty good.

    Pete pioneered a small organization in San Diego dedicated to de-programming and re-educating ex Witnesses. It was a challenge. The ex JW's with whom Pete worked were often very depressed with feelings of betrayal and disillusionment-- not to mention the humiliation and the despondence they were experiencing from letting themselves be duped by the Society's ingenious sophistry --and found it nigh impossible to trust ecclesiastical authority. Pete said that had he not been an ex Witness himself; many of his students would never have listened to him.

    Pete didn't train us to defeat the Society's missionaries in a discussion because even if you best them scripture for scripture, rebuttal for rebuttal, and refute for refute, they will not give up on the Society. Their mind's unflinching premise is that the Society is right even when it can be easily proven wrong. No, he trained us to do seven things:

    1• Do not accept their literature. They will want to come back later and discuss it with you.

    2• Don't give them a chance to launch into their spiel, but immediately put them on the defensive with your own questions, thus denying them control of the conversation

    3• Do not get embroiled in trivial issues like birthdays, Easter, Christmas, Christmas trees, blood transfusions, the design of the wooden device upon which Christ was crucified, service in the military, and that sort of thing.

    4• Force them to listen and pay attention to what you say even if you have to repeat yourself to do it, or clap your hands, snap your fingers, or raise your voice. Do not let them turn their attention elsewhere while you're speaking.

    5• Do not permit them to butt in and/or talk out of turn. Politely, but firmly, insist that they remain silent until you are finished speaking.

    6• Do not permit them to evade and/or circumvent difficult questions. They will sometimes say that they will have to confer with someone more knowledgeable. When they do that, the meeting is over. Thank them politely for their time and then ask them to leave and come back when they have the information. Do not let them stay and start a new topic of their own.

    7• It's very important to show them the Bible not in ways they've already seen, but in ways they've never imagined.

    The goal is to simply show missionaries that the Society's isn't the only interpretation out there. In other words: the Watchtower Society's interpretations aren't the only option; nor are theirs eo ipso the right interpretations just because they say so.

    Later on, I read a book titled Why I Left The Jehovah's Witnesses by Ted Dencher and eventually purchased a copy of the Society's Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures to use in my discussions with missionaries because it is the one Bible that they cannot challenge; nor dare to challenge. I also read and studied the Society's little brown book titled Reasoning From The Scriptures.

    From all that vetting, study, and training I quickly discovered that although the Watchtower Society uses many of Christianity's standard terms and phrases, those terms and phrases mean something entirely different in Society-speak than what you'd expect. It is genuinely a case of apples and oranges going by the same names. So your first challenge in dealing with a Watch Tower missionary is to scale the semantics barrier; and that by itself is an Herculean task.

    ====================================

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to WebersHome For This Useful Post:

    Cardinal TT (09-09-2015), FresnoJoe (09-10-2015), krystian (09-10-2015)

  3. #2
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    5,479
    Thanked: 4688
    I never let them say much. I give them the genuine gospel, tell them that where there is religious white wash there is much sin and send them on their way.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-10-2015)

  5. #3
    Senior Member wheeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,436
    Thanked: 833
    Blog Entries
    1
    i offer to pray for them. they will not allow anyone outside the cult pray for them. had 1 visit by the whole family from grandpa and grandma down 2 a new born on my front porch. offered to pray 4 them. took less than 1 min for them to flee my presence.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wheeze For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-10-2015), hansc (09-12-2015)

  7. #4
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    5,479
    Thanked: 4688
    Quote Originally Posted by wheeze View Post
    i offer to pray for them. they will not allow anyone outside the cult pray for them. had 1 visit by the whole family from grandpa and grandma down 2 a new born on my front porch. offered to pray 4 them. took less than 1 min for them to flee my presence.
    You can get on their do not knock list as well.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to John For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-10-2015)

  9. #5
    We were on the STAY AWAY list for years.

    We'd been in convo with another couple.. quite friendly.. back and forth dinners, etc. When our questions got too close, they were told they couldn't talk to us anymore. We, of course were stunned! WHAT?! YOU have the *truth* and are forbidden to talk to us about it?!?!!


    I don't agree with some of Weber's tactics though. We can make a much greater impact by being reeeaaallllllly nice. they have trouble processing that.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Femme* For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-10-2015), papabrett (10-23-2015)

  11. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    440
    Thanked: 188
    Blog Entries
    270

    Post

    -
    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post
    I don't agree with some of Weber's tactics though. We can make a much greater impact by being reeeaaallllllly nice. they have trouble processing that.
    It's important to be courteous because Jehovah's Witnesses sometimes regard rejection of what they stand for as hatred for Jehovah's Witnesses; and that's because all too often people let their core values define them.

    It can't be helped; that's just the way human nature works. Hence; it is very difficult, if not nearly impossible, to correct someone's core values because to do so means tampering with their opinion of themselves; which they will quite naturally defend to their dying breath even to the point of becoming hostile, obstinate, unreasonable and/or going into denial and becoming outright dishonest.

    Most people like to think of themselves as intelligent human beings. When we criticize their core values, they respond to the criticism as an attack upon their IQ; and their reaction is typically emotional and reactive instead of rational and objective; thus demonstrating by their behavior that in reality, they're a bit fragile in so far as their ego's opinion of themselves.

    A truly confident person doesn't go ballistic, or become hostile, defensive and/or emotional and reactive when their core values are under attack. Truly confident people are very tolerant of attacks upon their core values, and actually pretty good at turning the other cheek too; which has somehow gone out of vogue in Christian circles.

    ================================

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to WebersHome For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-10-2015), Valiant Woman (02-29-2016)

  13. #7
    My FIL used to love the share the gospel with JW, especially in his later years when he was bedridden. He was always an evangelist at heart.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Susan For This Useful Post:

    Femme* (09-09-2015), FresnoJoe (09-10-2015), papabrett (10-23-2015)

  15. #8
    Weber… guess what.. your core values DO define you. What your world view and belief system are completely, wholly make you who you are.

    All the years I was involved in this work, I learned that bludgeoning people with scripture is not helpful.

    What IS, is asking questions that you already know the answer to. Asking things out of their own material.. getting them to think.


    ANYone who is serious about being prepared in a way that is truly helpful, I'd sugggest checking out Stand to Reason. They are a reahttp://www.str.orglly good apologetics group.


    the tactics work in any circumstance with any group.. or even people who are the "nones"

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Femme* For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-10-2015)

  17. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    440
    Thanked: 188
    Blog Entries
    270

    Post Re: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

    -
    Were we to ask door-to-door Watchtower Society missionaries if they believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, I can assure you they would answer in the affirmative. However, what you may not know is that we and they would not be on the same page as the conversation would be talking about two very different processes that go by the same name. In other words: you would find yourself thrown off by semantic double speak.

    The standard Christian understanding of Christ's resurrection is common throughout the gospels; viz: Jesus Christ died as a physical human being and he came back as a physical human being.

    According to the Watchtower Society's resurrection theory; Christ didn't physically rise from the dead at all; and here's why.

    In Watch Tower Society theology, an angel named Michael volunteered to come to the earth as a man to die for humanity's sins. But the Society insists it is impossible for someone to exist as a human being and a spirit being simultaneously. So then, in order for Michael to come to the earth as a man, his existence as an angel had to be terminated.

    However, according to the Society, Michael's life force survived his death; and was transferred to Mary's womb where Michael was re-born as a human being.

    I am unaware at this time as to the Society's disposition of Michael's angel corpse during the years on earth when he was existing as a human being.

    But Michael's existence as a human being was only temporary. When God "raised" Jesus from the dead, it was not actually Jesus who got raised from the dead; it was Michael. Seeing as how Michael the angel had gone completely out of existence when he became Jesus the human being; God had to re-create Michael the angel from memory; in other words: in Society theology, Michael the angel has undergone creation twice.

    Bottom line: According to the Society; Jesus Christ's crucified body is still dead; and his remains are squirreled away somewhere on earth in a condition and a location known only to God.

    What about Christ's alleged post resurrection appearances?

    Well; according to the Society; those were not actually Christ. Those were Michael disguised in a human avatar that was, in all respects, a perfect, fully functioning knock-off of Christ.

    ====================================

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to WebersHome For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-10-2015), Valiant Woman (02-29-2016)

  19. #10
    The last time they came to my door, I spoke mostly to the newbie and showed her from their Bible that one must be "born again." I asked her if she would like to be born again. At that point, the other "witness", the veteran witness, insisted they needed to leave. I haven't seen them since then. :-)

  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Bookman For This Useful Post:

    FresnoJoe (09-10-2015), fuego (09-09-2015), Valiant Woman (02-29-2016)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
You can avoid expensive repair costs with an extended service plan for your Chrysler. Many vehicle repairs can cost thousands of dollars in surprise expense, now may be the time to consider an extended service plan for your vehicle.