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Thread: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

  1. #81
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    †. John 1:14 . . So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth.

    The ancient Greek word from which "undeserved kindness" is derived is charitos; which itself is derived from charis.

    "undeserved kindness" isn't a translation of the word charis; it's actually the Watchtower Society's own opinion of what they think that word ought to mean. It's literal meaning is graciousness.

    John Q and Jane Doe Witness are being deprived of viewing some very pleasant aspects of the only-begotten son's personality by interpreting charis to mean undeserved kindness because graciousness says some wonderful things about not only the flesh that the Word became; but also about the Father from whom the Word came.

    To begin with; Webster's defines "graciousness" as; kind, courteous, inclined to good will, generous, charitable, merciful, altruistic, compassionate, thoughtful, cordial, affable, genial, sociable, cheerful, warm, sensitive, considerate, and tactful.

    "Cordial" stresses warmth and heartiness

    "Affable" implies easy approachability and readiness to respond pleasantly to conversation or requests or proposals

    "Genial" stresses cheerfulness and even joviality

    "Sociable" suggests a genuine liking for the companionship of others

    "Generous" is characterized by a noble or forbearing spirit; viz: magnanimous, kindly, and liberal in giving

    "Charitable" means full of love for, and goodwill toward, others; viz: benevolent, tolerant, and lenient.

    "Altruistic" means unselfish regard for, or devotion to, the welfare of others; viz: a desire to be of service to others for no other reason than it just feels good to do so.

    "Tactful" indicates a keen sense of what to do, or say, in order to maintain good relations with others in order to resolve and/or avoid unnecessary conflict.

    Here's a couple of passages from the NWT where the Society's translation committee had the decency to let charis speak for itself instead of butting in to tell people what they think it ought to mean.

    "Keep on teaching and admonishing one another with psalms, praises to God, spiritual songs with graciousness" (Col 3:16)

    "Let your utterance be always with graciousness." (Col 4:6)

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  2. #82
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    Post Re: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

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    †. 1Thss 4:16-17 . .The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.

    "the Lord himself" is construed to be Michael the archangel due to the fact that the only other place in the New Testament where the Greek word archangélou appears is Jude 9, which reads:

    "But when Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses' body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: May Jehovah rebuke you."

    The word "Jehovah" is not really in that passage. The Society took the liberty to pencil it in. It's supposed to be kurios which is normally translated "lord". Thus the passage, as it is in the NWT isn't a translation; rather, it's an interpretation; viz: the Society forced the passage say what they think it ought to say instead of leaving the text as-is and letting the language and grammar of the passage speak for itself.

    In addition; seeing as how kurios in Jude 9 isn't modified by the definite Greek article "ho" then capitalization of "lord" is entirely arbitrary.

    Now, the thing that's interesting is that the Society translated kurios as Jehovah in Jude 9 but not in 1Thes 4:16 in spite of the fact that kurios in 1Thes 4:16 is modified by the definite Greek article "ho". In other words: of the two passages, the word "Jehovah" has more right to be in 1Thes 4:16 than it does in Jude 9.

    But you see; had the Society translated kurios as "Jehovah" in 1Thes 4:16, then the archangel would come across as God; which, to the Society, is unthinkable.

    But that aside: is the Lord of 1Thes 4:16 really Michael the archangel of Jude 9? No; what we're looking at in 1Thes 4:16 is a chain of command; with which I am very familiar after serving three years in the US Army. The top brass never communicates its wishes directly to the men; but indirectly through lower ranking officers.

    According to Matt 24:30-31, the Son of Man shall dispatch angels to round up his elect from every corner of the globe. In other words: the commanding voice of 1Thes 4:16 is Christ's as he issues the order for his angels to move out and begin rounding up his elect. The voice of the archangel will be Michael's as he goes up and down the ranks directing his officers to get their regiments into action. I can just picture it. When Christ issues that order, things will get pretty noisy up there in the atmosphere as units of angels are mobilized to begin carrying out their mission.

    NOTE: The title "Son of Man" alerts us to the fact that the commander in chief of the entire operation will be an h.sapiens rather than a spirit.

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  3. #83
    The last ones that were here, I showed them John 3 and asked them if they had been "born again." They admitted they had not. I asked them, "Would you like to be? You can right now." They left hurriedly.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    The last ones that were here, I showed them John 3 and asked them if they had been "born again." They admitted they had not.
    It's both tragic and ironic that the Watch Tower Society's missionaries go worldwide advertising a kingdom that they themselves will not be allowed to enter. Here's why.

    At John 3:3-12, Christ and a Jewish rabbi named Nicodemus discussed what Christ labeled "earthly things". The primary earthly thing discussed was the kingdom of God. The other earthly thing discussed was the spirit-birth requirement to enter it. In other words: the kingdom of God on earth, and the spirit-birth requirement to enter it, are joined at the hip.

    John Q and Jane Doe Watch Tower Society missionaries (a.k.a. the earthly class) are not spirit-born now, nor do they ever expect to be-- not in this life, nor in the next; yet they hope to enter the kingdom of God on earth. However, seeing as how the spirit-birth requirement to enter it is a must rather than an option; then they will not succeed.

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  5. #85
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    Post Re: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

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    Here's a common translation of Luke 23:43

    "I tell you the truth; today you will be with me in paradise.

    Here's the Watchtower Society's translation

    "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

    The reason that the Society's translation differs from just about every other translation is because, first off, the Society doesn't believe that people exist beyond the death of their bodies; not even Christ. Along with that is the Society's understanding of John 20:17, which reads like this:

    "Jesus said to her: Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father."

    In point of fact; Matt 12:40 and Acts 2:25:31 testify that when Christ died, he didn't go up, but instead, went down

    The Society erred by assuming that seeing as how Christ had not yet ascended to the Father, then he couldn't possibly have meant that he and the other guy would go to paradise that very day.

    The trick is: There's more than one paradise in the New Testament. One is down inside the earth where Abraham and Lazarus were situated in accordance with Luke 16:19-31. Another is located in a celestial region that Paul labeled the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4). And yet another is located in a place called the paradise of God. (Rev 2:7)

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  6. #86
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    Post Re: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

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    Webster's defines apostasy as renunciation of a religious faith and/or abandonment of a previous loyalty; viz: defection, which is defined as conscious abandonment of allegiance or duty (as to a person, cause, or doctrine).

    Apostasy is not always a bad thing. For example:

    †. 1Thes 1:4-10 . . For we know, brothers loved by God, his choosing of you, because the good news we preach did not turn up among you with speech alone but also with power and with holy spirit and strong conviction, just as you know what sort of men we became to you for your sakes; and you became imitators of us and of the Lord, seeing that you accepted the word under much tribulation with joy of holy spirit, so that you came to be an example to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia.

    . . .The fact is, not only has the word of Jehovah sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but in every place your faith toward God has spread abroad, so that we do not need to say anything. For they themselves keep reporting about the way we first entered in among you and how you turned to God from your idols to slave for a living and true God, and to wait for his Son from the heavens, whom he raised up from the dead, namely, Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath which is coming.

    Another example of the ideal kind of apostasy is my own.

    I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944 and subsequently attended its catechism till I completed First Holy Communion and Confirmation. In 1968, for reasons of faith and practice, I renounced Rome. I simply could not, in all good conscience, remain affiliated with a denomination that I no longer believed in; so I defected.

    Jehovah's Witnesses with honest reservations in their hearts about the trustworthiness of the Watch Tower Society have got to leave it-- they have to. Staying would not only be a sin against their conscience, but also against their own better judgment.

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  7. #87
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    Post Re: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

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    The Watch Tower Society's NWT translates a portion of John 4:24 like this:

    "God is a Spirit"

    The Watch Tower Society spelled "Spirit" upper case; but not all translators do. For example the NIV, the NAS, and the NASB spell "spirit" lower case.

    Anyway, the NWT has Christ moving on to say:

    "and those worshiping him must worship with spirit"

    The Kingdom Interlinear doesn't translate the Greek word έv as the English word "with" rather, as the word "in".

    Seeing as how the Interlinear trumps the NWT; then we should plug "in" into Christ's statement, so that it looks like this:

    "and those worshiping him must worship in spirit"

    It looks to me that Christ was saying that his Father wants people to worship Him spirit to spirit; which is a bit problematic for Jehovah's Witnesses because according to Watch Tower Society theology, humans are entirely physical. So then; if humans lack a spirit component to their existence, then in their natural-born, totally organic condition, they are incapable of worshipping God as He would like.

    This is a crucial issue because according to Christ, spirit-to-spirit worship of God isn't optional; no, it's a must.

    The answer to this dilemma is of course the living water about which Christ spoke with the Samaritan woman in the fourth chapter of John. That water equips people with a spirit component to their existence in which they can worship God as He would like.

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  8. #88
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    Post Re: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

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    †. 1Cor 15:44 . . It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.

    Watch as I misquote that passage because the difference, though subtle. Is significant.

    "It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spirit body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spirit one."

    No; it doesn't say spirit body but nevertheless that's what some people have decided it ought to say.

    The Greek word translated "spiritual" is ambiguous. It doesn't necessarily refer to the characteristics of a body with the consistency of thin air. Below is a list of spiritual things that bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the bodily chemistry of an angel or a demon.

    Spiritual gifts (Rom 1:11)
    Spiritual law (Rom 7:14)
    Spiritual things (Rom 15:27)
    Spiritual people (1Cor 2:15)
    Spiritual nourishment (1Cor 10:3)
    Spiritual water (1Cor 10:4)
    Spiritual rock (1Cor 10:4)
    Spiritual counselors (Gal 6:1)
    Spiritual blessings (Eph 1:3)
    Spiritual music (Eph 5:19)
    Spiritual understanding (Col 1:9)
    Spiritual housing (1Pet 2:5)
    Spiritual sacrifices (1Pet 2:5)

    I sincerely believe that the spiritual body spoken of at 1Cor 15:44 is in no way composed of a gaseous substance. Of what material it is composed I don't know; but I do know at least four things about it.

    1• The spiritual body is patterned after Christ's glorified body.

    †. Phil 3:20-21 . .Our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

    2• The spiritual body is capable of dining upon ordinary foods.

    †. Luke 22:15-16 . . I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you: I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.

    3• The spiritual body is capable of imbibing ordinary beverages.

    †. Matt 26:29 . . I tell you: I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.

    4• The spiritual body is capable of being seen by the naked eye.

    †. Acts 1:11 . . Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven.

    †. Rev 1:7 . . Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him

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