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Thread: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    you do know I was not talking about US praying and interceding for them..contending in prayer for truth to penetrate the darkness of their minds
    I know.

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  3. #22
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    Post Re: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

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    The Watch Tower Society alleges that Jesus Christ's resurrection was not a resurrection as most people understand the process, but rather; Christ's material body was left dead and he was re-created as a non material being: specifically a spirit being. In other words; according to the Watch Tower Society; Jesus Christ is no longer a man; he's an angel.

    Of all the doctrines invented by the Watch Tower Society, I'd have to say that is the most insidious because belief in Christ's resurrection is one of the essential elements of the gospel that must be accepted if one is to have any hope of escaping the wrath of God.

    †. 1Cor 15:1-4 . . 1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures

    Paul goes on to say that if Christ did not revive, then Christians haven't a prayer of escaping the wrath of God.

    †. 1 Cor 15:17 . . If Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

    But we know of course that the Society's allegation has a fatal flaw; and it's this:

    †. John 2:19-22 . . Jesus said to them: Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Therefore the Jews said: This temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days? But he was talking about the temple of his body. When, though, he was raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that he used to say this; and they believed the Scripture and the saying that Jesus said.

    You see, if Christ's material body had not been restored to life, his prediction would be easily proven false.

    Bottom line: The Society's version of Christ's resurrection is false; ergo: they do not believe he actually rose from the dead; and I guess we all know what that means.

    Q: What and/or where are the scriptures about which Paul spoke?

    A: There's at least two. One is the story of Jonah; which Christ appropriated as a "sign" of his own resurrection. (Matt 12:40)

    Another is in the book of Psalms at 16:8-10 (cf. Acts 2:22-36)

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  5. #23
    The JWs often set up shop on campus. A short while back, a student in my class would come to class after lunch and say he always stumped the JWs by asking them "Are you guys another denomination of Christianity?" He said they always tried to get into explanation mode, but he insisted upon a Yes or No answer first, which they wouldn't give.

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  7. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    The last time they came to my door, I spoke mostly to the newbie and showed her from their Bible that one must be "born again." I asked her if she would like to be born again. At that point, the other "witness", the veteran witness, insisted they needed to leave. I haven't seen them since then. :-)
    Bookman:

    What is your understanding of the expression "born again," as used in God's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible?


    Alter2Ego
    "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

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  9. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by WebersHome View Post
    †. Col 1:15 . . He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation

    The Watch Tower Society has appropriated that verse as evidence that the Word of John 1:1-3 was the first thing that God ever created. However, the New Testament Greek word for "firstborn" in that verse is prototokos which the Watchtower Society has construed to mean "created first" but prototokos never means created first; no, it always means born first; viz: the eldest offspring. The correct Greek word for created first is protoktistos.
    WebersHome:

    You stated (bolded in red above) that prototokos never means "created first" but instead it "always means born first" (bolded in blue). Either way you take it, Jesus Christ being "born first," as stated at Colossians 1:15, is evidence, from the scriptures, that Jesus Christ must have been created. Why so? Because only created beings can be "born."


    Alter2Ego
    "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

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  11. #26
    Jesus Christ must have been created. Why so? Because only created beings can be "born."
    Interesting claim, yet showing poor reasoning and totally false when applied to the creator.

    To make such a claim, a person has to have:

    1. a misunderstanding of the incarnation

    2. failure as to what it means to be raised in the spirit

    3. a general lack of understanding of the New Testament

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  13. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    WebersHome:

    You stated (bolded in red above) that prototokos never means "created first" but instead it "always means born first" (bolded in blue). Either way you take it, Jesus Christ being "born first," as stated at Colossians 1:15, is evidence, from the scriptures, that Jesus Christ must have been created. Why so? Because only created beings can be "born."


    Alter2Ego
    Might be a bit of misunderstanding in how it's presented.

    Jesus' physical body was born.. He was from the beginning the Logos with the Father and Spirit. It was He who created everything.. EVERYthing.. He, Himself was not created.. He couldn't create Himself..

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter2Ego View Post
    Jesus Christ being "born first," as stated at Colossians 1:15 is evidence, from the scriptures, that Jesus Christ must have been created. Why so? Because only created beings can be "born."
    The average door-to-door Watch Tower Society missionary doesn't know the difference between prototokos and protoktistos; and no doubt would care little for it anyway. In their minds; born first and created first are one and the same.

    However, "firstborn" is not restricted to birth-- it's primarily the title of a position of superiority; and as such, is transferable.

    Putting that in an Army chain of command context: there's the privates, the sergeants, the officers, and ultimately the US President-- supreme commander of all the armed forces. In rank, and in principle; Mr. Obama is the firstborn of all the armed forces; but after the next election, the torch may very well pass to Hillary Clinton and then she will be the firstborn of all the armed forces.

    But we're not done here yet. According to Col 1:16-17, God's son created all things, and existed before all things: which means of course that God's son not only created Adam but also that God's son preceded Adam. Well; it's very easy to prove that Christ descended biologically from Adam. So the fact of the matter is: God's son created Christ's biological father.

    I suspect the trinity's opponents get fouled up with Christ's origin because they are unable to discern the difference between the Word of John 1:1-3 and the flesh that the Word became in John 1:14.

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    Last edited by WebersHome; 09-14-2015 at 05:21 AM.

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  17. #29
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    Post Re: The Watch Tower Society vs Christianity

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    The Watchtower Society's form of theology is called monolatrism, which basically alleges that all gods are actual deities; though not all deities are deemed worthy of worship. This is not quite the same as polytheism where numerous gods are all considered worthy of worship.

    Monolatrism is distinguished from monotheism (asserts the existence of only one god) and distinguished from henotheism— a religious system in which the believer worships one god alone without denying that others may worship different gods of equal value.

    While traditional Christianity recognizes but two categories of gods-- the true and the false --the Watch Tower Society's theologians took the liberty to create a third category of gods sandwiched between the true and the false called "mighty ones". The mighty-one category is a sort of neutral zone where qualifying personages exist as bona fide deities without violating the very first of the Ten Commandments. For example:

    "I myself have said: You are gods" (Ps 82:6)

    The gods referred to in that statement are human beings; which everybody knows are not true deities; so in order to avoid stigmatizing human beings as false gods, the Society classifies them as mighty ones.

    This gets kind of humorous when we plug "mighty one" into various locations. For example:

    "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a mighty one." (John 1:1)

    And another.

    "No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten mighty one who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him." (John 1:18)

    The neutral zone was an invention of necessity. In other words: without it, the Society would be forced to classify the Word, and the only-begotten, as false gods seeing as how John 17:3, and a host of other passages, testify that there is only one true god.

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    Last edited by WebersHome; 09-15-2015 at 01:59 PM.

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  19. #30
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    To be born again means one has RECEIVED the life of God by the Holy Spirit. In other words our dead spirit, dead as in separated from God, was reunited with HIS. So the sinner has now been indwelt with God's living Spirit making him alive to God. Apart from the new birth all are still dead in their sins no matter how hard they work or how god they are.

    Apart from the death of the sinless sacrifice and the acceptance of that sacrifice by God the Father the provision of the new birth would not have been made so to renounce the deity f Christ is to renounce the ONLY way of salvation...new birth...new life...
    Weber stated it well..."
    But we're not done here yet. According to Col 1:16-17, God's son created all things, and existed before all things: which means of course that God's son not only created Adam but also that God's son preceded Adam. Well; it's very easy to prove that Christ descended biologically from Adam. So the fact of the matter is: God's son created Christ's biological father.

    I suspect the trinity's opponents get fouled up with Christ's origin because they are unable to discern the difference between the Word of John 1:1-3 and the flesh that the Word became in John 1:14.
    It is illogical but the things of the Spirit always are...
    Last edited by Quest; 09-15-2015 at 01:59 PM.

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