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Thread: The Shack Thread redux

  1. #1

    The Shack Thread redux

    I know ValWoman has posted one, but check this out...

    http://wmpaulyoung.com/universal-reconciliation/

    Dr. Al Mohler considers himself a five-point Calvinist. He believes God has a distinguishing love for "the elect" and the cross of Christ actually saves the elect. In other words, Dr. Mohler believes the people for whom God sent His Son to redeem are actually delivered (saved) from their sins at the cross by the work of Jesus (see Matthew 1:21). I understand Dr. Mohler's theology and happen to agree with it, though I prefer to call them "the doctrines of grace" because I see these doctrines taught in Scripture.
    Paul Young believes the same thing as Dr. Mohler regarding God's unconditional love and the power of Christ's cross. He simply disagrees with Dr. Mohler over "For whom did Christ die?" Paul Young believes Christ died for every sinner who has ever lived or ever will live.

    Paul Young told me he is a "hopeful universalist." He believes that our loving God sent His Son to die for every single sinner without exception. One day God will effectually reconcile every sinner to Himself. Paul uses the term "hopeful" universalism because he understands that the Scriptures speak of judgment, but Paul is "hopeful" that even in judgment, the love of God will eventually bring the sinner being judged to love for Jesus Christ. Paul Young is "hopeful" that the fire of God's love will eventually and effectually persuade every sinner of God's love in Christ. So Paul Young believes exactly like Al Mohler when it comes to the unconditional love of God and the efficacy and power of the atonement of Jesus Christ. Both men believe the cross actually reconciles sinners to God.

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  3. #2
    John Piper once tweeted “Goodbye Rob Bell” when Rob Bell published Love Wins, a book that questions, but does not deny the existence of an eternal hell. During that same time period, John Piper extolled C.S. Lewis as the greatest influence in his life. Both men, Rob Bell and C.S. Lewis, asked the same theological questions in their writings. C.S. Lewis asked his questions wrapped in a narrative of fantasy, while Rob Bell spelled out his questions in plain English.
    John Piper has never tweeted “Goodbye C.S. Lewis.” Could it be that it’s far easier for us to fire the gun of heresy at those we’ve never taken the time to thoroughly read, or if possible, get to know as friends?

    If a person chooses to reject the doctrine of God’s distinguishing love and finds comfort in hopeful universal reconciliation, we who follow Jesus might be careful before we charge our fellow believer in Christ with heresy. Both Calvinism and hopeful universal reconciliation believe in a God of love and an efficacious cross. The difference is over “For whom did Christ die?”
    .

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Calvinism vs universalism. That's a funny matchup.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaithfulOne View Post
    I know ValWoman has posted one, but check this out...

    http://wmpaulyoung.com/universal-reconciliation/
    What makes the article dishonest and false is this statement...The author said, 'He believes that our loving God sent His Son to die for every single sinner without exception. One day God will effectually reconcile every sinner to Himself.'


    Mr. Young clearly stated the opposite in more than one interview...it was in the interview I posted on the other thread...Mr. Young says he does "NOT believe every person will be reconciled back to God"

    He does believe God loves all humanity, he does believe Jesus died Once for all...he also stated he opposes the 'doctrine of election' just as much as he opposes the doctrine if universalism...

    Hopeful universalist means just that, he is hopeful but his faith is in what is written and no such provision is stated in scripture...

    I personally believe he studied it...considered it...hoped it was true, but at the end of the day was scripturally honest that if it does God did not disclose it...therefore he rejected it...

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Calvinism vs universalism. That's a funny matchup.
    "So Paul Young believes exactly like Al Mohler when it comes to the unconditional love of God and the efficacy and power of the atonement of Jesus Christ. Both men believe the cross actually reconciles sinners to God"

    Is that a statement of Calvinism or a statement of Christianity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FaithfulOne View Post
    .
    Valid point...For whom did Christ die?

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    We had a thread not long ago about did Christ die for all sins past present and future? Did He grant forgiveness before repentance or withhold it from us until we repent? Is mercy granted to all but not attributed until received by faith?

    Well I have no problem believing Christ died for ALL and that all sins have been forgiven with one addendum...faith that opens the gateway of receiving...

    I do believe Mr. Young functions with an absence of judgment toward others, and an uncanny ability to love the good, the bad and the ugly and hope those really bad sinners find redemption...where others hope they don't...which is more Christ like I wonder?

    In the book and the movie we see a man broken when he realizes just how misguided his judgments toward others was and when he stepped off that judgment seat he meant it...he relinquished all right condemn anyone to Hell ....I saw the Holy Spirit taking a man who was self righteous and peeling him like an onion...showing him that God alone is the judge...he stepped down and said, I don't want to be the judge any more...that is the source of his 'hopeful'.

    Rather than be hopeful some evil person will be punished in Hell He is hopeful they will be redeemed....

    This is a generic question....for whosoever reads it.. is there someone you are hopeful will go the Hell? Don't ask yourself though...ask Holy Spirit..

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    "So Paul Young believes exactly like Al Mohler when it comes to the unconditional love of God and the efficacy and power of the atonement of Jesus Christ. Both men believe the cross actually reconciles sinners to God"

    Is that a statement of Calvinism or a statement of Christianity?
    It's two versions of definite atonement pitted against each other.

    Calvinism - definite and limited atonement (the pre-elected are saved)
    Universalism - definite and unlimited atonement (everyone is saved)
    Arminianism - potential and unlimited atonement (those who choose to believe are saved)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    It's two versions of definite atonement pitted against each other.

    Calvinism - definite and limited atonement (the pre-elected are saved)
    Universalism - definite and unlimited atonement (everyone is saved)
    Arminianism - potential and unlimited atonement (those who choose to believe are saved)
    From what I read Mr. Young is more Arminian...he never talks about salvation apart for choice...

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    From what I read Mr. Young is more Arminian...he never talks about salvation apart for choice...
    A choice that is overwhelmed until it literally cannot but comply, just like the Calvinist believes. The language sounds Arminian but the content is Calvinist. Except for the limited vs unlimited atonement part.

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