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Thread: My Meeting With Pastor Joseph Prince - Michael Brown

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    My Meeting With Pastor Joseph Prince - Michael Brown

    On Friday, Jan. 20, while ministering in Singapore, I had the pleasure of spending two and a half hours with Pastor Joseph Prince, delving into the Scriptures in Hebrew and Greek, discussing the points on which we differed and highlighting the points on which we agreed. Without a doubt, the points on which we agreed far outnumbered and outweighed those on which we differed.

    When I wrote the book Hyper-Grace: Exposing the Dangers of the Modern Grace Movement, I reached out to the main authors I quoted in the book, asking them for permission to quote their writings if I went beyond the normal publishing guidelines, also asking them if they would like to reconsider any of their positions.

    But I did not reach out to Pastor Prince, wrongly assuming he would not be interested in dialoguing with me based on my experience with some previous leaders who refused to interact. I apologized to him for my failure to do so, and he graciously received that apology.

    He also wanted to make clear that he strongly differed with the positions of some of the others I quoted in my book, and what grieved him was not that I misrepresented his position when citing him but rather that he was cited side-by-side with some others whose views he strongly rejected.

    Additionally, Pastor Prince felt that I have not accurately represented those who follow his Bible teachings regularly and how this has helped many around the world lead disciplined, holy, victorious and Christ-centered lives. He explained that his ministry office regularly receives testimonies from people who have been set free from the destructive bondage of sin, from those who have been liberated from the shackles of pornography and from those set free from severe drug addictions through his preaching of the gospel of grace.

    Although I gladly acknowledged those testimonies and said I also heard similar stories from those who follow his teachings (because of the wonderful truths he delivered) I reiterated that I had also heard opposite stories from those who had become complacent and fleshly (because of what I believed were errors in his teaching).

    Pastor Prince maintains clearly that those who have become complacent and fleshly do not understand the gospel of grace, and he would be the first to warn them that they are not living under God's grace and to share with them Romans 6:14: "For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law but under grace." He believes beyond a shadow of a doubt that people who have an accurate revelation of God's grace have the power to lead holy and victorious Christian lives. For Pastor Prince (and of course, for me as well), grace is not the license to sin; it is the power to break free from the bondage of sin.

    Our principal area of disagreement remains his teaching that the moment we are saved, our future sins are already pronounced forgiven (in contrast with the idea that our future sins are paid for but sin is not pronounced forgiven until it is committed and brought to the Lord). But to repeat, our areas of strong and vibrant agreement are much greater than our areas of disagreement, and I want to shout out those areas of agreement to the world.

    First, we both agree that it's all about Jesus. He must be central. He must be the focus of our lives. We must draw all people to Him and His atoning work on the cross. Pastor Prince also said that, rather than just say, "Jesus, Jesus" all the time, we should get back to the biblical emphasis: Lord Jesus. And I say Amen to exalting Jesus as Lord.

    Second, we both agree that many (if not most) believers often struggle with guilty consciences, failing to realize the depth of God's love for them and failing to understand what Jesus did on their behalf, and so it is essential to ground them in grace. I also shared with Pastor Prince that whenever I teach on the errors of hyper-grace, I begin by extolling God's true grace, seeking first to open us that glorious revelation...

    http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/...-joseph-prince

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Our principal area of disagreement remains his teaching that the moment we are saved, our future sins are already pronounced forgiven (in contrast with the idea that our future sins are paid for but sin is not pronounced forgiven until it is committed and brought to the Lord).

    If someone believes all future sins are paid for then that is OSAS

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    If someone believes all future sins are paid for then that is OSAS
    One needs to distinguish between unbelief and other sins. Some OSASers believe that future unbelief has been paid for. Joseph Prince doesn't, rather he believes that a believer cannot turn to unbelief.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Joseph Prince doesn't, rather he believes that a believer cannot turn to unbelief.

    Isn't that OSAS just using different terms

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    Senior Member Valiant Woman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    If someone believes all future sins are paid for then that is OSAS
    No it's not. If he'd said all future sins are "forgiven", then I would agree with you. Jesus died for the sins of mankind even before we were born. So ALL sin is paid for.

    Jesus is not coming back to pay for sins I may commit tomorrow or next year. He's already paid for them. Once and for all.
    When your praise match your prayers, the answer will come.
    https://www.facebook.com/Valiant-Wom...1103844642026/

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    Senior Member Valiant Woman's Avatar
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    I'm sure Pastor Prince will come under attack for meeting with me and welcoming me warmly as a brother, and I'm sure I will come under attack for doing the same with him.
    I'm confused. Why would they come under attack for meeting with one another?
    When your praise match your prayers, the answer will come.
    https://www.facebook.com/Valiant-Wom...1103844642026/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Woman View Post
    I'm confused. Why would they come under attack for meeting with one another?
    Dr Brown would come under attack for meeting with a guy many believe is a 'hyper-grace heretic' and Prince come under attack for meeting with something that preaches heavily against 'hyper-grace'.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Woman View Post
    No it's not. If he'd said all future sins are "forgiven", then I would agree with you. Jesus died for the sins of mankind even before we were born. So ALL sin is paid for.

    Jesus is not coming back to pay for sins I may commit tomorrow or next year. He's already paid for them. Once and for all.
    Ok thanks ...you are right
    I got mixed up and meant to quote the part where he says all future sins are forgiven

    Our principal area of disagreement remains his teaching that the moment we are saved, our future sins are already pronounced forgiven..

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    Good article!

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Isn't that OSAS just using different terms
    Yes, or with a different mechanism. The former is hyper-grace. The latter is the usual OSAS version. Joseph Prince takes it a bit further by stating that a true believer cannot live in sin, that would merely prove that he has never been one.

    My impression of this is that a believer in his version is likely to restrict the concept of "living in sin" to where it always means something more severe than anything he himself has ever done, to avoid annulling his salvation. Which I think works the same way with non-osas who believe that living in sin annuls salvation (the one they did have previously, in their case). Some admit that it probably works that way, that the severity matters. But then it becomes difficult to find that distinction in the Bible.

    Anyway, Joseph Prince is pretty much as far away from hyper grace as it is possible to get, for someone who believes in osas.

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