Thread: Spiritual Formation

Originally Posted by Colonel

That could sound like a substitute instead of the reality that the baptism in the Spirit brings.

wikipedia...

Originally Posted by Jonathan david

Your comment brings to mind:

EXODUS 20
The People Afraid of God's Presence
18 Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off. 19 Then they said to Moses, "You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die."

20 And Moses said to the people, "Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin." 21 So the people stood afar off, but Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was.

Absolutely...for some it is ignorance, as in unlearned, and for others it is an unwillingness to come into the presence that must purify...

Originally Posted by Jonathan david

Will try and find out...

I am quite interested.....thank you!

I will add one thought....I never locked into any one movement, I am one who gleans...

Originally Posted by Quest

I will add one thought....I never locked into any one movement, I am one who gleans...

Same here Quest. "Eat the meat throw out the bones." That's a process that seems to be a requirement on most "centers of thought" these days.

Here is an interesting article...but this statement is the premise, it would seem...

http://christianresearchnetwork.org/...ual-formation/


The Renovaré website states:


Spiritual formation is a process, but it is also a journey through which we open our hearts to a deeper connection with God. We are not bystanders in our spiritual lives, we are active participants with God, who is ever inviting us into relationship with him.[2]

IMHO that is where the rubber meets the road..whether we are active participants in our relationship development or passive...the irony that I saw from the beginning is that it is totally illogical to say one disagrees we are active in our growth..yet there seems to be a limit some believe on how active we should be...and the teaching of Christian formation seems to be beyond what some believe we should participate...but if I am going to run a race to win do I run it hesitantly? If we run at all let's run with our whole heart soul mind and strength..

Dangers

Unbiblical origins

Despite assertions that the spiritual disciplines are "God-ordained,"[13] they are in fact derived from the practices of Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox mystics.[14] These practices are contrary to the biblical theology fought for in the Reformation.

I disagree..if the principles are scriptural and Biblical the origin is God, not the RCC church...they merely used and promoted and taught it...

Unbiblical view of man's condition

Spiritual formation teaches that man possesses innate goodness, but that his fallen state of sin is a result of "deprivation" or "spiritual starvation." Thus, the disciplines help to feed, mature and grow man's spirituality. In his Spirit of the Disciplines, Dallas Willard states:

I also disagree here as scripture clearly states the born again person is a new creation and the Spirit of God within transforms us...the more we learn to cooperate in faith the faster we can progress in Christ formed In us..

Invented practices made binding upon Christians

Spiritual disciplines are not commanded in Scripture. To impose practices not commanded in Scripture as necessary for spiritual maturity is to undermine and deny the sufficiency of Scripture (2 Tim. 3:16–17).

Again I disagree...we are told to pray without ceasing, when we fast..., and to study to show ourselves approved...these are not legally binding on us a required for our salvation however they are necessary to grow...

Possibility of real spiritual experiences not from God

Richard Foster himself has offered warnings when it comes to practicing some of the disciplines. In regard to the practice of contemplative prayer, which is a type of meditation, Foster, in his book Prayer: Finding the Heart's True Home, writes:

When Jesus went apart to pray, He did not fear a demon tricking Him. Why? He knew the voice of His Father and He knew the scriptures...He said WE would know and a stranger we will not follow and The Spirit of God would lead us into all truth..and if we ask a fish will He give us a stone? This is a key fear tactic to keep people dependent on MAN for the 'truth'...God has not given us a spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind..The guidance is to expect God to affirm with His word and to have Godly counsel to share what we hear...

I love the little training manual by Mark Virkler, 'How To Hear the Voice Of God'. He also has some You tube videos..


They conclude:

Deception is rampant, and unbiblical, mystical practices may offer people an actual spiritual experience, though not one that originates from the true and living God. To ignore the boundaries of Scripture is to open oneself up to danger.

I agree..where we disagree is where those scriptural boundaries actually are...

Continued :

In his book, The Celebration of Discipline, as well as on his Renovaré website, Richard Foster lists these disciplines as:[11]
meditationEntering into a "listening silence" in order to "hear God's voice." Similar to the meditation of Eastern religions.

"prayer" An "interactive conversation" with God. Practiced as contemplative prayer.

"fasting" The voluntary denial of an otherwise normal function for the sake of intense spiritual activity.

"study" The mind taking on an order conforming to the order of whatever we concentrate upon.

"simplicity" The joyful unconcern for possessions we experience as we truly 'seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness' (Matt 6:33).

"solitude" A state of mind" for one to be "found by God and freed from competing loyalties.

"submission" Letting "go of the burden of always needing to get our own way.

"service" A pattern of service as a lifestyle...At the center is found a contentment in hiddenness, indiscriminancy.

"confession" Confession of sin to other professing believers.

"worship" Entering into the supra-natural experience of the Shekanyah, or glory, of God.

"guidance" Learning to "heed the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the teachings of Jesus." "It is the perception that we have heard the Kol Yahweh, the voice of God.

"celebration" Celebrating God in all facets of life.

Since the disciplines are not defined in Scripture, no concrete, definitive list is available. Consequently, Willard notes that we should not "assume that our particular list will be right for others."[12] This confirms the subjective nature of these practices.

The conclusion says these are not defined in scripture...I again, disagree...there are scriptures given to us on every one of them...
Anyone care to tackles these one by one?

Originally Posted by Colonel

That could sound like a substitute instead of the reality that the baptism in the Spirit brings.

Sure, Colonel, As we have said about this quote, you can see that there is room to go off. I am getting that, when the "users" of a practice have a wide demographic, it is highly likely that some "conceptual surgery" will be needed. As you point out, what we Pentes sort out as a practical articulation of meeting with the Lord in a deep way, can also be used by New Age, Bhuddists, etc. for their purposes. Looks to me like a baby/bathwater thing.

We are not hear to defend SF, per se, but we don't need to dump it totally just because "other groups we don't like or agree with" use it (not that you are ;)

I find that list AWESOME...and within I see where we so often fall way short...

Originally Posted by Jonathan david

Sure, Colonel, As we have said about this quote, you can see that there is room to go off. I am getting that, when the "users" of a practice have a wide demographic, it is highly likely that some "conceptual surgery" will be needed. As you point out, what we Pentes sort out as a practical articulation of meeting with the Lord in a deep way, can also be used by New Age, Bhuddists, etc. for their purposes. Looks to me like a baby/bathwater thing.

We are not hear to defend SF, per se, but we don't need to dump it totally just because "other groups we don't like or agree with" use it (not that you are ;)

I agree...there is nothing new under the sun so IMHO Satan took what God intended for us and twisted it into other religions...not the other way around as some fear..