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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
Was Jim Jones ever saved.....what about Carlton Pearson
carliton went to ORU and preached in chapel many times while I was there. He was Orals protege. I suspect he fell into deception along the way. In the early years he had a fire in him for Jesus that was something to see...
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So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
I'm always mindful of a few red flags.
* US vs. THEM - a superior believer mentality that appeals to our pride.
* 1 Peter 5:3 - Don't lord it over the people assigned to your care, but lead them by your own good example. - The rules are for the little people, leadership is immune or opaque, many things done behind closed doors.
* 1 Corinthians 3:4 "I am a follower of Paul," and another says, "I follow Apollos," aren't you acting just like people of the world? - Personality attachment, magnetism, charisma is typically a false light, not genuine anointing. Personality centered ministry is usually wrongly focused.
* Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? - The fruit of Spirit led ministry is Galatians 5:22-23 -- love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
* Inordinate gain -- 2 Corinthians 12:7 Did I make a gain of you by any of them whom I sent unto you? Not to be confused with poverty, the other extreme.
* 1 Corinthians 2:2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. Many, many have fallen into Colossians 2:19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
BUT
All Spirit led ministry will exalt Jesus Christ, not doctrine. Doctrine is not Lord, Jesus Christ is Lord. If you can't pull what you are hearing or seeing through the cross, it is not of Him.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
wheeze
carliton went to ORU and preached in chapel many times while I was there. He was Orals protege. I suspect he fell into deception along the way. In the early years he had a fire in him for Jesus that was something to see...
More proof OSAS is a lie
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Super Moderator
Originally Posted by
John
I'm always mindful of a few red flags.
* US vs. THEM - a superior believer mentality that appeals to our pride.
* 1 Peter 5:3 - Don't lord it over the people assigned to your care, but lead them by your own good example. - The rules are for the little people, leadership is immune or opaque, many things done behind closed doors.
* 1 Corinthians 3:4 "I am a follower of Paul," and another says, "I follow Apollos," aren't you acting just like people of the world? - Personality attachment, magnetism, charisma is typically a false light, not genuine anointing. Personality centered ministry is usually wrongly focused.
* Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? - The fruit of Spirit led ministry is Galatians 5:22-23 -- love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
* Inordinate gain -- 2 Corinthians 12:7 Did I make a gain of you by any of them whom I sent unto you? Not to be confused with poverty, the other extreme.
* 1 Corinthians 2:2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. Many, many have fallen into Colossians 2:19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
BUT
All Spirit led ministry will exalt Jesus Christ, not doctrine. Doctrine is not Lord, Jesus Christ is Lord. If you can't pull what you are hearing or seeing through the cross, it is not of Him.
This is so true..I was actually just pondering a concept being promoted, not new of course, in relation to this election. Won't go into THAT so as not to derail but CULT mentality is so deceptive...and it gives those who embrace it a sense of identity and belonging...it has been used throughout the history of mankind to divide..
You mentioned the 'us against them'. During the early stage of the Charismatic movement pastors all over preached from this stance...'Don't listen to THEM, they are in deception and will deceive you...' I personally rejected this because I had come to realize the scriptures and the Holy Spirit were my PRIMARY source of truth..that Go uses people but as soon as they ay, listen to me, not them, I recognize they are not exalting Christ...they are not discernment...Sometimes the agenda of the ideology is compromised by the very tactics used to gain it.
"The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society."
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm
So while Christ promotes unity the polarization actually promotes the opposite...I found this to be particularly true in some issues America as a nation faces today as well as the Church of Jesus Christ..
So is this:
"Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished."
This tactic is also fear based on rather than 'fear them' it says 'fear ME or US'.
Pastors in probably all denominations do this...NOT ALL pastors but some IN ALL...
But some deception is caused by the opposite...the unwillingness to take a stand against sin for the sake of a promoted 'unity' that is not Biblical..even contrary to it..He said come out from among THEM and be YE a separate people...so rather than be willing to be ostracized or persecuted as Christ said we would be, some have embraced a lie, an inclusion view that refuses to call sin sin...and is convinced that 'love and acceptance will lead them to Christ...and that conviction that draws one to Godly repentance is not truth.
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Super Moderator
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
More proof OSAS is a lie
Do you believe he embraced OSAS and that led to Universalism that he eventually landed with? That would be a very distorted POV of Calvinism. Since most believe adamantly in elect and non-elect...it does not recognize any middle ground...no I believe homosexuality was his Achilles heel...
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Quest
Do you believe he embraced OSAS and that led to Universalism that he eventually landed with? That would be a very distorted POV of Calvinism. Since most believe adamantly in elect and non-elect...it does not recognize any middle ground...no I believe homosexuality was his Achilles heel...
I don't know why Carlton did what he did but I believe OSAS can lead to universalism as they are both deceptions
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Super Moderator
I'm, somewhat, inclined to agree with John, with a caveat..
our doctrine is WHAT WE BELIEVE ABOUT GOD.
I know we are all on a different learning curve, and God gives us what we need as we mature and grow, but we need to, very carefully, examine doctrine, continually, so we don't go off into cuckooland.
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
I don't know why Carlton did what he did but I believe OSAS can lead to universalism as they are both deceptions
I can see the Arminian version of OSAS leading to ideas of universalism based on the "Gospel" at my church changing over time. It went from the command "We're all sinners; repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour and be saved" to the question "we make mistakes, do you want to get to know God better?" over maybe three decades, maybe less.
However in Calvinism the Perpetuity of the Saints is based on God choosing who He would save before the foundation of the world; before anyone existed, writing their names at that point in the Lamb's book of life. As it's already decided and in writing, we can't even go to "anyone can" be saved let alone "everyone will" be saved.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Bookman
Don't know much about Carlton. Doubtful about Jim. By their fruits, ye shall know them.
Carlton Pearson was here in Tulsa recently. A pastor friend of mines wife took a photo with him and posted it on Facebook last week. I was very, very surprised. She and her husband are RHEMA graduates (class of 2013.) I am sooo tempted to ask them, " what was that about?"
One of the main reasons I don't watch or listen to a lot of different preachers are the points mentioned in the OP. The church/ministries/ministers I've been either a member or supporter of have never deviated from the Word of God since I've been saved. And I don't believe they ever will.
Still, I'm cautious to study the scriptures for myself and spend time in prayer and fellowshipping with the Lord, praying in the Spirit everyday.
The way the world is headed, we'd better be as close to God as possible, because many are falling for the deception that's out there. :-(
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