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Thread: Job

  1. #1
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    Job

    *Job posts have been split from another thread*


    Was it God's Plan A for Job to be utterly destroyed by Satan so that he could be restored to an even greater place? I say yes. God was not the direct cause of Job's tragedies, but God worked those tragedies into what I believe was His Plan A for Job.
    God was not the one that caused or even allowed Job's trouble... Job was in fear, and being in fear is a sin... and that's what caused Job to already be in satan's hand and satan was so stupid that he didn't even know it! Job was the one that broke the hedge of protection that God put around him by being in fear (he kept doing the same sacrifices over and over and over and over... because he was in fear that his chillins would sin)

    You guys are off on these conjecture trails wasting brain time on theories that mean nothing... you'd grow more spiritually if you went back to God's Word and study / learn the topics He put in His Word for our edification... rather than silly, foolish arguments about "what would have happened IF..."

    I mean, what if the sun quit shining... with the technology we have today, could man survive???
    Last edited by krystian; 09-25-2016 at 10:28 PM. Reason: Split a thread

  2. #2
    FT, God boasts to Satan about Job's righteousness, and you accuse Job of sin. So you must believe it's possible to be live in fear and yet have God call you "blameless and upright." I actually believe what God said of Job was true. There was no fault in him. He did not cause his troubles. That's as clear as it can possibly be. To attribute Job's troubles to Job is to read into the text what you want it to say so it will fit your preconceived notions.

    And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    FT, God boasts to Satan about Job's righteousness, and you accuse Job of sin. So you must believe it's possible to be live in fear and yet have God call you "blameless and upright." I actually believe what God said of Job was true. There was no fault in him. He did not cause his troubles. That's as clear as it can possibly be. To attribute Job's troubles to Job is to read into the text what you want it to say so it will fit your preconceived notions.
    First, you need to believe what God said in the New Testament about fear being a sin to even start understanding what happened to Job... secondly, Job was there and he specifically said "what I feared came upon me".

    Yes, God considered him to be righteous because Job did not have the teaching we have (the written Word) and because Job otherwise lived an upright life... Job broke the hedge of protection God had place around him thru ignorance / lack of knowledge... what Job did was not intentional sin, none the less Job's actions allowed satan to have Job under his control cause God said to satan that Job was already in his hand and then God forbid satan to take his life.

    If Job was in faith... why did he say what he feared had come upon him and WHY was he doing the same sacrifice over and over and over???

    You apparently believe God decided to let satan test Job without knowing the New Testament:

    James 1:13,14
    Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
    But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.


    There you go again drawing conclusions without considering what God teaches through out the entire Word of God.... this is how error and deception gets started.

  4. #4
    Nonsense, F T. No matter which Testament you use, obsessive fear is not compatible with being labeled by God as upright and blameless. Many times in the OT God told his people to "fear not." Fear of adversity has never been acceptable to God.

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    Job specifically said "what I feared has come upon me"... so according to Job's own testimony, he was in excessive fear which is why he kept doing the same sacrifice over and over again.

    Sure you don't believe God teamed up with the devil to test Job and see how much Job could take, as many who haven't studied Job's situation believe. If that were true, then God lied in James 1:13,14

    James 1:13,14
    Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
    But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.


    Fear is in fact a sin... which is how satan was able to get in to Job's life and bust him up:

    Revelation 21:7,8
    He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.



    God calls those things that be not as though they were (Romans 4:17) so of course He said Job was upright and blameless but this does not mean Job was perfect... Jesus Christ is the only One who ever walked this earth as a perfect man.

  7. #6
    FT is a perfect example of "never read A Bible verse"

    he has no idea about context.. when you string a bunch of unrelated verses together, you can make the Bible say just about anything you want.

    Judas went out and hanged himself.. go therefore and do likewise.

  8. #7
    If fear is a sin as you rightly say it is, then Job could not have been consumed with fear and yet declared upright and blameless by God. I've already demonstrated that "fear not" is not a NT teaching. It has ALWAYS been God's admonition to fear not. I realize it runs counter to what you want to believe, but it's extremely obvious that Job had NO part in the trials that came upon him. The only thing one could possibly say of Job is that his trials came upon him because of his utter and complete righteousness.

  9. #8
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    If fear is a sin as you rightly say it is, then Job could not have been consumed with fear and yet declared upright and blameless by God. I've already demonstrated that "fear not" is not a NT teaching. It has ALWAYS been God's admonition to fear not. I realize it runs counter to what you want to believe, but it's extremely obvious that Job had NO part in the trials that came upon him. The only thing one could possibly say of Job is that his trials came upon him because of his utter and complete righteousness.
    Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone per se, but just want to state something. Job was 'perfect and upright' in relation to the very limited revelation he had. He was declared that in the light of his limited knowledge of God and His Word. A NT Christian has much more responsibility and a higher standard than Job would have ever had. So something that would have been a sin for a NT Christian would have not been a sin for Job. Therefore Job could have done things that wouldn't be a sin for him but would be for us. So if fear being a sin for us, that being a product of unbelief, if indeed fear and unbelief is a sin for us, would not have been a sin for Job in regards to fear because he had no instruction concerning it like we do, but at the same time he would have lived under the spiritual consequences of it. His ignorance didn't free him for the effects of 'spiritual law'.

    Job is basically assumed to be alive about the same time as Abraham. His knowledge of God and therefore his responsibility would have been minimal. It's also why a Job experience wouldn't happen to a believer in the same way, due to our knowledge of the Word and the fact we have authority over the devil and he didn't.

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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone per se, but just want to state something. Job was 'perfect and upright' in relation to the very limited revelation he had. He was declared that in the light of his limited knowledge of God and His Word. A NT Christian has much more responsibility and a higher standard than Job would have ever had. So something that would have been a sin for a NT Christian would have not been a sin for Job. Therefore Job could have done things that wouldn't be a sin for him but would be for us. So if fear being a sin for us, that being a product of unbelief, if indeed fear and unbelief is a sin for us, would not have been a sin for Job in regards to fear because he had no instruction concerning it like we do, but at the same time he would have lived under the spiritual consequences of it. His ignorance didn't free him for the effects of 'spiritual law'.

    Job is basically assumed to be alive about the same time as Abraham. His knowledge of God and therefore his responsibility would have been minimal. It's also why a Job experience wouldn't happen to a believer in the same way, due to our knowledge of the Word and the fact we have authority over the devil and he didn't.
    Obsessive fear of the future is never found in a person, whether OT or NT, who God declares upright and blameless.

  12. #10
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    Obsessive fear of the future is never found in a person, whether OT or NT, who God declares upright and blameless.
    Well it is with Job because Job himself reveals his 'greatly feared'. I don't see how you can definitely make that statement with what is said about Job being very clear. You're stating an opinion that is easily disproved with Job. I will agree with you about the NT though.

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