Thread: God is and has always been selective.

Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33

My bible says that God's grace has appeared to ALL men.

no one argues differently.. but, just as most people can look at the world, our bodies, etc, and NOT see God everywhere, neither can they see God's grace, even when it's right in front of their eyes. They are blinded by satan.

Originally Posted by Femme*

no one argues differently.. but, just as most people can look at the world, our bodies, etc, and NOT see God everywhere, neither can they see God's grace, even when it's right in front of their eyes. They are blinded by satan.

That settles it! God lied!

Why not just believe what God said in His Word?

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

That settles it! God lied!

Why not just believe what God said in His Word?

Seriously? You don't think unsaved people are blind to His grace, until they finally have eyes to see and ears to hear?

Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33

My bible says that God's grace has appeared to ALL men.

If you walked down the street and randomly asked people "has God's grace appeared to you?" what sort of Yes/No figures do you think you'd get.

You'll need 100% for the way I think you understand this to be correct.

Originally Posted by Quest

That none can come unless the Father draws them...

Seems a reasonable interpretation.

But who does the Father draw?

John 6:44? Let's add verse 45 as well. "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me."

In the context of the whole Bible how does these verse make sense? Jesus says two things:

1) No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him

How does this mean anything unless some are NOT drawn by the Father to Jesus

2) Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me

Again "everyone who (fulfils this condition, not some that choose to but everyone) comes to me"

If the Father draws everyone then why are those verses in the Bible?

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

I got a better question fer ya... what do you do with these passages???

A better question is never an answer.

Originally Posted by Bookman

Seriously? You don't think unsaved people are blind to His grace, until they finally have eyes to see and ears to hear?

Og course they are blind... God's Word says satan has blinded the mind (understanding) of those that do not believe.

This does not mean that God has not done His part in reaching out to them. God says man is without excuse, so anyone that questions the Lord is right close to blasphemy, accusing the Lord of wrong doing which is agreeing with and listening to satan.

I'd cut that out if I were you!

To accuse God of not being fair and just is blasphemy and is working corruption in your understanding.

Why not simply believe what God says in His Word???

Originally Posted by FunFromOz

A better question is never an answer.

Is it when the original question is unbelief... and unbelief is seeing what God says and choosing to not believe it!

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

Is it when the original question is unbelief... and unbelief is seeing what God says and choosing to not believe it!

No the question was nothing to be with unbelief it was:

"Then what do you do with John 6:44? No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him."?

Now see what God says FT.

Jesus said that "no one" (not anyone, not any person) "can come to me" (what they can't do) "unless" (now comes the requirement) "the Father who sent me" (God, the Father, Jesus' Father) "draws him" (this is what the Father has to do).

So a person is there and Jesus is there. Can they come to Jesus? Not by themselves, Jesus says that they can't come unless the Father draws them.

As Bookman asks, what do you do with that?

God IS drawing them... they just cannot hear.

It's like a radio station that is continually sending out radio transmissions... if your radio is not working, you don't call up the radio station and tell them "hey, just wanted you to know your station is not broadcasting any signal".

No, you put some batteries in your radio!

The Word is very clear that satan blinds the minds of them that believe not, so God is in fact broadcasting because He says man is without excuse. The Word also says that it's God's will that none should perish. He's not the problem, man is because man is listening to satan.

I highly recommend that people quit accusing God of not being fair and just... if anybody ends up in hell, it' NOT God's fault because He has done His part.

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

God IS drawing them... they just cannot hear.

Sorry FT that's not what the Bible says.

We've been missing the end of that verse but in full it says "no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day".

It does not say "no one can come to me unless (he hears) the Father who sent me draws him and ...", it says that you will come if you are drawn and if you are you will be raised up.

What is the purpose of that verse unless it says what it says, that not everyone is called by the Father but that those who are will be saved?