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Thread: God is and has always been selective.

  1. #11
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    So you must believe then that all unbelievers are equally drawn to God and equally have their eyes opened to their condition.
    I do...and I believe at that moment the individual decides to repent and accept Jesus or say no...which naturally leads to another aspect of Calvinism...irresistible grace...that it is impossible for them to be drawn and have their eyes opened to their condition and say NO...pointing back to previous concept, therefore God does not draw them...

  2. #12
    Man already made his choice.. why do you think the "in bondage to sin" and "redemption" language is used.

    this isn't Monty Hall with Let's Make a Deal, where there are multiple doors to choose.. we chose, in Adam. We're already in sin.

    The ONLY way out is a supernatural intervention from God, Himself.

  3. #13
    So you must believe then that all unbelievers are equally drawn to God and equally have their eyes opened to their condition.
    I do...
    Then what do you do with John 6:44? No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.

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    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    I do...
    Then what do you do with John 6:44? No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.
    Well, I have my own explanation of that verse, but to answer it in the context of your and Quest's conversation, it agrees with what she says. It doesn't say that all accept the invitation when He draws them. Your reply in light of what she answered seems to indicate 'irresistible grace' on your part.

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  7. #15
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    And while I'm in here I may as well answer the OP. :)

    Romans 9 is in regards to national election, not individual election as it pertains to salvation. God had to have a client nation to bring knowledge of Him through, and He chose Israel for whatever reasons He had. In regards to calling (not salvation) that has always been according to His sovereignty since all of these callings have to work together to form a complete body. There is no respecter of persons of in this.

    In regards to salvation and receiving from God, faith is the great equalizer. It's is not by works but by faith. Since the NT is clear that God has given every man a/the measure of faith (Romans 12:3), then we all have equal access to God/Jesus by faith. If God draws every man, and all have an opportunity to salvation, then He supplies faith to everyone he draws (I will draw ALL men unto me) thereby giving ALL access to salvation.

    Again, selective is in regards to calling, not salvation.

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  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    Then what do you do with John 6:44? No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.
    I got a better question fer ya... what do you do with these passages???

    2 Corinthians 4:4
    In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    God is not withholding His light from mankind.

    Romans 1:18-21
    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


    Romans 1:28
    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind

    This is where people get the idea that children go to Heaven if they were to die before the "age of accountability" (also Romans 7:9) because apparently God has made Himself known to all people.

    Romans 5:18
    Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    Titus 2:11
    For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

  10. #17
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post
    Man already made his choice.. why do you think the "in bondage to sin" and "redemption" language is used.

    this isn't Monty Hall with Let's Make a Deal, where there are multiple doors to choose.. we chose, in Adam. We're already in sin.

    The ONLY way out is a supernatural intervention from God, Himself.
    ALL did so why not give ALL the option of repentance?

  11. #18
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    Then what do you do with John 6:44? No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.
    That none can come unless the Father draws them...

  12. #19
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Titus 2


    11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

    15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.
    My bible says that God's grace has appeared to ALL men.

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  14. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    ALL did so why not give ALL the option of repentance?
    don't have a clue. Put that on your list of things to ask Jesus when we see Him.

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