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Thread: Can unconfessed, unrepentant sin send a Christian to hell?

  1. #21
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    I believe sin damages our faith and as we choose to progress deeper and deeper into sin our faith in Jesus diminishes more and more until we reach a place where we no longer have any, or care...this is, I believe the state of the reprobate....when someone reaches this state they may still be practicing the religion of Christianity but have no heart for Jesus.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebersHome View Post
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    Q: Can we really expect people to respect the law-- any law, human or divine --without law enforcement?

    A: God fully enforced His law on the cross.

    Isa 53:6 . . All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him.

    2Cor 5:19 . . God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself

    2Cor 5:20-21 . .Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

    That may seem a strange way to enforce law but seeing as how it works for God; then I'm definitely all for it.

    Luke 2:8-12 . . And in the same region there were some shepherds staying out in the fields, and keeping watch over their flock by night. And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened.

    . . . And the angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which shall be for all the people; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

    Well, I think it goes without saying that a savior unable to protect people from their unconfessed sins is pretty much a paper tiger; and the angel's announcement of "great joy" is about as reliable as a campaign promise.

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    He certainly CAN but faith is a necessary component so when one's faith diminishes due to sin it is very possible for some to cross a line of rebellion and sin that their faith becomes presumption....

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lively Stone View Post
    Unconfessed, unrepented of sin in the life of a believer will not condemn him, because His sins have already been dealt with---past, present and future, and God has already forgiven and forgotten them, but it can very well shipwreck his life, and cause him to lose out on certain rewards at the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ that have been reserved for him.
    There is no scriptural basis to show that future sins are already forgiven. There is however clear and plentiful scriptural evidence to show that sin in the life of a believer can lead them to turn completely away from the Truth of the gospel and end up worse than before they were ever saved.

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    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Woman View Post
    I completely agree. Like the man that was involved with his father's wife. Paul said...

    "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” 1 Corinthians‬ *5:5‬ *

    “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.” John‬ *10:27-29‬ *

    Christians miss it at times. Some more than others. "Where sin abounds, grace abounds more." Only those that reject Christ's atonement for their sins go to hell.
    We must consider the whole counsel of God's word when establishing doctrine. Context is also key.

    The scripture you quoted "where sin abounds, grace abounds much more" is actually

    "20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

    This is the picture that the Lord gave me in dealing with this scripture: Let's say you could picture your sin, and it was piled up to 5' deep when you came to Christ. His grace abounded much more and covered your sin.
    If my sin was piled up to 20' deep when I came to Christ, His grace was still greater than my sin.

    This passage of scripture is not talking about sin in the life of a believer, but how grace works when we come to Christ.


    No one can pluck us out of the Lord's hand, but we have free will and can step out.

    James warns us of the process that happens when we allow sin into our lives as believers. "12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

    16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. "


    And then he drives home the point at the end of his epistle: "19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."


    " 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,[a] because our testimony among you was believed."


    Have you ever wondered why Paul mentioned 2 different "types" that will suffer vengeance when Jesus comes back?
    1. Those who don't know God.
    2. Those who don't obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Those who don't know God are unbelievers who never repented and came to faith in Jesus.
    Those who don't obey the gospel are shallow ground hearers, stony ground hearers, thorny ground hearers, bad fish, foolish virgins, tares, and "any from AMONG YOU who wander from the truth."


    "4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

    7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned."



    And I thought you switched camps way back when you were "Queen"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    He certainly CAN but faith is a necessary component so when one's faith diminishes due to sin it is very possible for some to cross a line of rebellion and sin that their faith becomes presumption
    It seems that wherever the meaning of the cross is heralded, there's somebody comes right behind with a wet blanket to smother its message of "great joy" and it's usually people who place more value upon piety than upon the competence of the savior announced by that angel.

    The Greek word for "savior" in Luke 2:8-12 is soter (so-tare') which means a deliverer; viz: a rescuer.

    Rescuing is what the Coast Guard does when boats capsize. Rescuing is what Firemen do when people are trapped inside burning buildings. Rescuing is what mountaineer teams do when climbers are in trouble. Rescuing is what EMT paramedics do when someone needs to get to a hospital in a hurry; and kept alive till they arrive. Rescuing is what surgeons do when someone needs an organ transplant.

    I could go on and on giving example of rescuer after rescuer; but I think you get the idea. Rescuers typically assist people in grave danger who are in no condition to assist themselves.

    The New Testament's Jesus is like that: he rescues people from the wrath of God-- people who not only fully deserve it, but definitely in line to get it.

    John 6:39 . .This is the will of Him who sent me: that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

    Some rescues can be very expensive, like an organ transplant. But Jesus doesn't require beneficiaries of the new covenant to pay their own way, nor does he require a co-pay. No, he's got it covered; all of it.

    Matt 20:28 . .The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

    1Tim 2:5-6 . .There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all

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  10. #26
    Senior Member Ezekiel 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebersHome View Post
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    It seems that wherever the meaning of the cross is heralded, there's somebody comes right behind with a wet blanket to smother its message of "great joy" and it's usually people who place more value upon piety than upon the competence of the savior announced by that angel.

    The Greek word for "savior" in Luke 2:8-12 is soter (so-tare') which means a deliverer; viz: a rescuer.

    Rescuing is what the Coast Guard does when boats capsize. Rescuing is what Firemen do when people are trapped inside burning buildings. Rescuing is what mountaineer teams do when climbers are in trouble. Rescuing is what EMT paramedics do when someone needs to get to a hospital in a hurry; and kept alive till they arrive. Rescuing is what surgeons do when someone needs an organ transplant.

    I could go on and on giving example of rescuer after rescuer; but I think you get the idea. Rescuers typically assist people in grave danger who are in no condition to assist themselves.

    The New Testament's Jesus is like that: he rescues people from the wrath of God-- people who not only fully deserve it, but definitely in line to get it.

    John 6:39 . .This is the will of Him who sent me: that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

    Some rescues can be very expensive, like an organ transplant. But Jesus doesn't require beneficiaries of the new covenant to pay their own way, nor does he require a co-pay. No, he's got it covered; all of it.

    Matt 20:28 . .The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

    1Tim 2:5-6 . .There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all

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    And what happens if the person being rescued jumps out of the boat before they get to shore?

    Jesus is able to save us completely. However, scripture makes it clear that we still have a FREE WILL even after being saved. It is up to us to stay in the Ark.
    Of course, maybe you don't believe that we were created with free will? That doctrine usually goes along with the one you are proposing (OSAS).

    There are too many warnings written to the church to ignore them. I have seen complete households destroyed because some well intended family friend came along and convinced them of this poison doctrine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    And what happens if the person being rescued jumps out of the boat before they get to shore?
    They would be pulled out of the water because the angel said the Christ the Lord is a savior; which is from the Greek word soter (so-tare') which means a deliverer; viz: a rescuer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel 33 View Post
    Of course, maybe you don't believe that we were created with free will?
    God's free will trumps mine.

    John 6:39 . .This is the will of Him who sent me: that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

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    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    James was writing to believers....he is warning of death which is spiritual notice he tells them to not be deceived of this truth

    Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
    Jas 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
    Jas 1:16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    James was writing to believers....he is warning of death. Jas 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
    Paul wrote virtually the very same thing to the believers in Rome.

    Rom 8:13 . .If you live according to the sinful nature, you will die

    However, we need to get it straight in our thinking that beneficiaries of the new covenant are in absolutely no danger of the second death depicted at Rev 20:11-15.

    Jer 31:35 . . I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Rom 4:8 . . Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

    2Cor 5:19 . . God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them

    The Greek word in for "impute" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee) which means to keep an inventory, In other words: an indictment; which Webster's defines as an official written statement charging a person with a crime.

    The new covenant's beneficiaries need to get it settled in their minds once and for all that God is not keeping a record of their sins with which to slam them at the Great White Throne event. Jesus gave his word in the statement below that such a tragedy will never occur.

    John 5:24 . . I assure you: Those who listen to my message, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

    Q: Seeing as how the second death is no longer an issue for beneficiaries of the new covenant; then what might be the nature of the death about which Paul and James wrote?

    A: It is possible for really sinful beneficiaries of the new covenant to shut God out.

    1Thess 5:19 . . Do not quench the Spirit

    When beneficiaries of the new covenant reach that point, they've lost the power of the fruit of the Spirit as per Gal 5:22-23.

    People going about their daily business without the fruit of the Spirit are just as dead on the hoof as a perfectly good iPod with a flat battery. But there's no need to throw out the lifeless iPod and buy another when all that's needed to get it up and running again is hook it up to a charger.

    Rom 8:13 . . If you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.

    Eph 5:8-9 . .You were sometimes darkness, but now are you light in the Lord: walk as children of light: For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

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  15. #30
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    You will never convince me Webers that a saved person cannot become reprobate and apostate.
    It's not Gods will but it happens.....It's in the scriptures

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