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Thread: The Truth about Grace (Part 2)

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    The Truth about Grace (Part 2)

    Well, since my last video teaching on the subject stirred the pot, I think you folks will really enjoy part 2

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP8XQXpwJ_g

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    7:10 "The blood of Jesus has payed for your past, present and future sins. That is a true statement"

    Thank you. Then you say that anyone who sins is a slave under Satan. I'd say AMEN to that statement. And also to the statement you make later that grace gives us the power to overcome sin.

    Then you start talking about how people who sin need to get back under the blood of Jesus again because they have become slaves under Satan. The question is if that means that Satan has automatically taken ownership over us just because. The Bible also teaches that those who are sick are under the power of Satan :

    Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

    and Jesus used terminology related to slavery about a sick woman :

    Luke 13:16 "So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound—think of it—for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?”

    So do you fall from grace by being sick ? I think not. But you are still under the power of the devil when you are sick, in bondage to him. Your faith for healing may be said to be lacking but that does not bring anyone out from under grace. Grace covers sin and also imperfections including a lack of faith.

    Hebrews 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

    Now if grace doesn't cover anything that follows after a person has taken up the faith and anything contrary to God's standard of perfection will send you on your way to hell until that is repented of, then you'll not only have to avoid sinning but you will also have to stay free of every blemish on your body and soul, including being double-minded in any way, shape or form about anything as that verse from James that you qouted talks about, or else you aren't remaining in the perfection that God requires of those who serve him. Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. That is Jesus' standard. If there is anything in your heart that needs to be sorted out, anything that keeps you from saying that you are fully sanctified, able to walk up to God in heaven and present yourself and tell him that you are good enough, that you are walking according to the standard that grace has called you to walk, then that is not good enough. To avoid being condemned to hell for that, grace will have to continue to cover you while you are repenting from all those things and working out your salvation. At no point in time are you good enough to declare yourself good enough for God. Grace will have to cover you at all times and whenever it stops doing that, you are on your way to hell. That is the truth. Grace covers you until you step out of the new covenant. You know how to do that. You do that by stepping out of faith and rejecting him in your heart. Sin produces that act, in time. So sin is dangerous but Jesus doesn't immediately send you flying in the direction of hell every time you sin. He is a better master than that.

    29:00 "If you don't do what they want (other masters) then they beat you. Jesus - if you don't do what he wants he comes and hugs you and says please for your own good do what I want"

    Well I agree completely with that. But I don't agree with your rendition of him as sending you to hell if you don't do what he wants then happen to die while doing that. That's a lot worse than being beat by those other masters every time you don't do what they want.

    It is possible to be owned by master A and still run off and serve master B and function as his slave. That doesn't mean that master B can simply claim ownership over master A's slave that he has tricked into slaving for him. To the contrary, master A will come over to master B's house and DEMAND to have his slave back since he is the rightful owner. Unless he himself decides to simply hand his slave over to master B and let him have him. Which God does if we disown him as our master.

    I don't dislike most of your latest video though. Just all the diversions in the direction of hell every time someone sins.
    Last edited by Colonel; 07-25-2015 at 12:40 PM.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    In general, if you can walk up to God's throne in heaven and stand before God in all his power and majesty and manifested holy presence - outside of grace - and remain intact without being burnt to a cinder because he finds fault with you, then you no longer need grace to cover you. In this life, grace will never empower you to be good enough for God. Life as a Christian is a life continually under grace, period. There is nothing else. Because the power of Satan has some hold in you in some way since you are not yet perfect. Want to be rid of being under the power of Satan ? Like really ? Okay, get perfect and remain perfect.

    Jesus was not under the power of Satan :

    John 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
    Last edited by Colonel; 07-25-2015 at 01:11 PM.

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    A verse mentioned in the video :

    1 John 3:9 NKJV Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

    There is a contention about whether or not the first part of the verse should or could be translated as "does not practice sin" which could then be interpreted as the one having been born of God being capable of sinning but not continuing with that sin. The contention is about the verb "does not".

    The latter part of the verse contains a simple infinitive of the verb sin, as in "to sin". The previous words are dunamai and ou. The word dunamai is related to dunamis which is used in the Bible about God's power as in ability. Dunamai means ability. Ou is the absolute negative.

    un-able to sin

    has no ability to sin

    The one born of God has no ability to sin

    How do we then manage to sin if we do sin ? Because there is something or someone who is of the devil who still lingers in us and by letting him be in charge, he will find room for committing sin.

    Will we go to hell because we haven't rid ourselves completely of that old man who is of the devil yet ? Nope, grace covers the fact that there is still a remnant left of him and that we are capable of sinning by letting him be in charge.

    Eph 4:22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;
    23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds;
    24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Get back under the blood...that seems to be the questionable phrase...VW can you define that statement in a single sentence?

    Can you verify that when a Christian sins they are out from under the blood?

    Now a simple yes or no there for clarity...if I tell my boss a lie and then die on the way home from work am I going to Hell?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Get back under the blood...that seems to be the questionable phrase...VW can you define that statement in a single sentence?

    Can you verify that when a Christian sins they are out from under the blood?

    Now a simple yes or no there for clarity...if I tell my boss a lie and then die on the way home from work am I going to Hell?
    Quote from the video :

    7:19 "Jesus has payed for your future sin but if you sin you still have to get back under the blood"

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Let me give you an analogy that will help ME understand..years ago I prayed and told the Lord I felt I did not have a good grasp on the concept of GRACE..

    In a vision He showed me a baby in the womb of it's mother..and I knew that was depicting a born again believer. He showed me the WOMB is GRACE and the umbilical cord of LIFE flow from Holy Spirit who both sustains and nourishes our growth and the 'mother' is Jesus who takes what is Jesus' and reveals them to us. ...

    For instance, at first their lungs are not developed..their kidney's are not developed, their hearts are not developed..certainly they are not 'functioning' as a mature baby..

    UNLESS one aborts prematurely due to cutting off the life flow of Holy Spirit they REMAIN in that womb of grace...But every issue of development does not cause an abortion...that GRACE place keeps us through the ebb and flow of life and transformation and even through the times of slipping and falling...

    Sin can slow down our progress, it, no doubt, hinders the flow of the Holy Spirit..but unless one completely cuts off that flow they remain 'in grace' and in grace means 'under the blood'. Does one need to repent? Yes because repentance is necessary for US to begin fresh in the right direction...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Get back under the blood...that seems to be the questionable phrase...VW can you define that statement in a single sentence?

    Can you verify that when a Christian sins they are out from under the blood?

    Now a simple yes or no there for clarity...if I tell my boss a lie and then die on the way home from work am I going to Hell?
    1 John 1:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Hebrews 12:14-15
    14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
    15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    1 John 1:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    So does verse 9 mean that the person has lost his salvation until he confesses his sins or does it mean that he needs to confess his sins to Jesus to be cleansed from the effects of sin in the temporal sense ?

    Also, are there any exceptions made in terms of the type of sins and/or the duration they were being committed ?

    My answers are the latter, no and no.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    1 John 1:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Hebrews 12:14-15
    14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
    15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled
    Thank you for the scriptures but they can be interpreted more than one way..

    Colonel has a valid question...do you believe people can oscillate in and out of salvation?

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