Thread: The Truth about Grace (Part 2)

Originally Posted by Quest

Thank you for the scriptures but they can be interpreted more than one way..

Colonel has a valid question...do you believe people can oscillate in and out of salvation?

A more fundamental question :

Can a person die having the Holy Spirit and genuine faith and still go to hell ?

Originally Posted by victoryword

1 John 1:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hebrews 12:14-15
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled

I've seen dozens of Calvinists post the following verses with highlights and without any commentary :

Romans 9:11 for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls
12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”
13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

And then they all expect us to automatically interpret the verses the way they have decided to, in terms of predestination of individuals to salvation or damnation. If we don't then we are opposing the truth and God will judge us for not becoming Calvinists and for disobeying the truth.

Originally Posted by Colonel

A more fundamental question :

Can a person die having the Holy Spirit and genuine faith and still go to hell ?

Yep. Live in sin, die in your sins, you go to hell. Live holy, you will see the Lord.

Originally Posted by victoryword

Yep. Live in sin, die in your sins, you go to hell. Live holy, you will see the Lord.

Ok..so you are talking about someone who continually practices a sinful lifestyle; not someone who sins while on the path of progressive transformation and renewal of the mind...thanks for clarifying

Originally Posted by victoryword

Yep. Live in sin, die in your sins, you go to hell. Live holy, you will see the Lord.

So that is what you think you are doing, living holy ?

Is there any sin you can commit and then die while committing it and then you go to heaven ?

Colonel : Can a person die having the Holy Spirit and genuine faith and still go to hell ?

victoryword : Yep. Live in sin, die in your sins, you go to hell. Live holy, you will see the Lord.

2 Cor 1:21 He anointed us,
22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

Using your methodology of discussing scriptures I shouldn't have bothered to comment on the above scriptures, I should merely have posted them, highlighted them and kept it at that. But I'd at least expect you to explain them to us, for instance your particular interpretation of the term "guarantee". When I say "explain", you may translate that into "twist" to bring it more in line with your preferred terminology.

No matter how holy I can live the only reason I go to Heaven is still Jesus redemptive work on the cross....any holy living I am able to do is BECAUSE of that finished work..

Originally Posted by Quest

No matter how holy I can live the only reason I go to Heaven is still Jesus redemptive work on the cross....any holy living I am able to do is BECAUSE of that finished work..

The truth is that our righteousness is - at all times - like filthy menstrual rags in God's eyes. To see God we need Jesus' holiness, our own would lead the consuming fire to burn us to cinders in a split second. Anyone who believes otherwise has no clue whatsoever who God really is.

You will not go to Heaven if you willfully commit unrepentant sin. God cannot blink His eye at sin. He is a Holy God.

Heaven: Sin will never enter there.