Originally Posted by
Quest
First, it was my point that Jesus gave the disciples authority before His death and resurrection..not that it was given due to the salvation that took place after His resurrection. Judas was under the law and not 'saved' until after the resurrection, just as were none of the others.
John 17:
11"I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. 12"While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. 13"But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves.…
This passage is clear, Judas role in the redemption of mankind was foretold in scripture. Jesus knew he would do what he did and Jesus knew he was a thief...
Did Jesus KNOW before He chose him? Scripture does not say but we do know that Jesus knew very well he was the one that was prophesied about before He was betrayed.
One can certainly argue predestination or one can argue that what God KNEW and what God orchestrated are not the same thing...regardless Judas was not SAVED as no one under the old covenant was SAVED...they were kept if they died in faith until the redemptive work was complete.
It does appear that Judas gradually succumbed to sin until he was consumed by it. If anything he is a good example of trying to live with one foot in faith and one foot in the world...I personally believe God Knew all along what chices Judas would make when tempted, just as He knew all along what choices Pharoah would make when given a choice, and that the Holy Spirit led Jesus to pick him for that very purpose.
Quest, seriously, your view of Scripture denigrates the character of God. You need to learn what the phrase, "so that the Scripture would be fulfilled" is actually saying. Well known Greek scholar and author A. T. Robertson writes the following in his commentary on Matthew:
Then was fulfilled. We have here a different form of statement from the familiar “that it might be fulfilled.” A similar construction appears in 27:9 in connection with the death of Judas Iscariot. In both instances it is a quotation from Jeremiah. There seems to be an apparent shrinking from saying that either event was a part of the purpose of God. All that the present language need mean is that what was mentioned by the prophet Jeremiah has come true again in the case of Bethlehem. The author does not attribute any essential Messianic idea to Jeremiah's words. The quotation is apparently made from memory from the LXX (Jer. 38:15, LXX ; 31:15 Hebrew).
Or as another man stated:
And the words, “that the Scripture might be fulfilled,” seem to signify no more than that the words which David wrote concerning his enemies were fulfilled in Judas. It does not mean that his fall and destruction were decreed by God, and minutely foretold in Scripture, and that his fall and destruction were brought about agreeable to that decree for the purpose of fulfilling Scripture; but simply that his voluntary and wilful fall from the grace of God, and the holy ministry, fulfilled what the Psalmist spoke respecting his own adversaries. (Hen Silas, EXamination of Spurgeon's Calvinism)
The truth is that God had nothing to do with Judas' crime. This was totally Satan's doing. Judas willingly received and acted on the thought that was given to him by the devil, and would therefore, have to pay the price. God neither predestined or it or prophesied anything in Scripture directly concerning Judas. But past discussions with you on these subjects let's me know I am wasting time even trying to help you understand the truth.