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Thread: The Book of Life and Blotting Out

  1. #21
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    There is one objection against innocent babies being written into the book of life since conception. The fact that they have made no choice to be so. At least the Israelites had made the choice to enter the old covenant. Ultimately, everyone must accept the Lordship of Jesus and receive his nature before they can enter heaven. Noone is born with that nature, it has to be received. So even though babies are accepted into heaven they still have to accept and receive that. It can be argued that only then are they written into the book of life.

    Can they reject ? The only answer to that that I can think of is "why would they"

  2. #22
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Psa 58:3 -The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies
    One has to notice hyperbole when it is spoken by David, which he uses quite often in regard to the wicked. Used to emphasizing the wickedness of the wicked. It isn't a doctrinal statement. Reason tells you that no one goes astray when they are born. Again, hyperbole to emphasize the utter wickedness of the wicked.

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  4. #23
    Just a thought. Toddlers and pre schoolers have to be taught to share, not to hit, not to bite, not to lie, to obey etc. They don't arrive manifesting good behavior. Character formation fits in.

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  6. #24
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    I can remember being innocent but still having no clue about God. I was 23 months old. I can remember being very sinful at the age of 7 and feeling hell in the depths of my heart while I was in danger of dying while climbing around a cliff all on my own. I sort of felt where death would lead me. The age of accountability doctrine would have sent me to heaven but I just dont think so. If we are talking about possibilities then maybe God will make more exceptions with children and the retarded but I have no reason to imagine that that would have included me even though the police would hardly have found me interesting.

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by curly sue View Post
    Just a thought. Toddlers and pre schoolers have to be taught to share, not to hit, not to bite, not to lie, to obey etc. They don't arrive manifesting good behavior. Character formation fits in.
    Yes I can remember doing stuff like that but the stuff I was doing at 7 wasnt merely childish. And there are far worse examples and at younger ages. Even cruel murderers killing other children and there was no accident or influence from older people involved.

  8. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Psa 58:3 -The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    One has to notice hyperbole when it is spoken by David, which he uses quite often in regard to the wicked. Used to emphasizing the wickedness of the wicked. It isn't a doctrinal statement. Reason tells you that no one goes astray when they are born. Again, hyperbole to emphasize the utter wickedness of the wicked.
    Reason also tells you that no one has ever heard a newborn speaking in the delivery room.

  9. #27
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krystian View Post
    Reason also tells you that no one has ever heard a newborn speaking in the delivery room.
    Exactly. It's hyperbole to emphasize a particular thing.

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Innocence is not righteous, you can only be righteous by the blood

    A babies spirit is not alive to God in the sense of righteousness and being born again. Every human is born with an unregenerate spirit

    Psa 58:3 -The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies


    Pro 22:15 - Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of correction will drive it far from him

    The carnal unredeemed nature of man is already in the heart of a child. The circumstances of life as a baby grows into maturity ends up revealing this sinful nature
    According to Cardinal TT's own system of precedence, the following statement by Jesus should have more weight than 100 verses like that from the Old Testament :

    Mark 10:13 And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them.
    14 But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, "Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
    15 Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all."
    16 And He took them in His arms and began blessing them, laying His hands on them.

    But then there may be a stronger principle that takes precedence over all of that, the one that says that passages that indicate that more people are on their way to hell and that Christians find offensive should always be given more weight. Praise the Lord.

  11. #29
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

    Only those who believe have everlasting life. Why would your name be written in the book of everlasting life if you don't believe.

    Babies cannot believe so their salvation would depend on other factors


    In regard to Psalm 58 and Proverbs 22 the 'hyperbole' is used to prove no one is born saved and righteous but everyone including babies are born with a sin nature
    Even Jesus used hyperbole to make a point

    Ask a parent if their 'innocent' 2 year old what they are capable of. The rebellion, acts of defiance, stubbornness and even violence are displayed
    Every baby has a sin nature which needs redemption and they are under the curse of their father Adam

  12. #30
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    Even a Jew from 1500 BC would not use the rod on a baby so the context of the verse from Prov 22 is a child that is a bit older and can be reasoned with. The Hebrew word is translated as boy, lad, youth

    The idea of the innocense of small children is found in the OT as well :

    Jonah 4:11*And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?”

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