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Thread: The Book of Life and Blotting Out

  1. #11
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    When you cherry pick scripture you come up with any doctrine, that is why we need to look at all the verses regarding final judgment and see what they say

    By cherry picking scripture you come up with ...'everyones name is automatically written in the book of life'
    Add to that your favorite preacher saying it then it must be right

    The only times blotting out names is mentioned in CONTEXT is to saved Israelites and christian believers in Rev


    Man is FALLEN and under a curse so how can their names be written in the book of life....The Book of Romans describes the condition of fallen man


    People get annoyed when you bring up scripture and no longer want to discuss as they have their pet theories established in their belief structure

  2. #12
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Lets examine these verses

    Exo 32:31 Then Moses returned to the LORD and said, "Oh, these people have committed a great sin, and have made for themselves a god of gold!
    Exo 32:32 Yet now, if You will forgive their sin—but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written."
    Exo 32:33 And the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

    When did the Israelites get their name written in the book of life?????

    Two possibilities
    1. When they were born like all humans on earth
    2. When they went into a covenant and shed the blood of the passover lamb...they were redeemed

    What makes more sense in the light of all scripture????


    IMO No.1 sounds like Universalism that everyone is automatically saved until they sin.

    What sin blots out your name?
    Does a 3 year old who displays anger and pulls their sisters hair classify as a sin?
    Is it a 8 when you steal some lollies?
    Is it at 15 when you have your first sexual sin?

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    When you cherry pick scripture you come up with any doctrine, that is why we need to look at all the verses regarding final judgment and see what they say

    By cherry picking scripture you come up with ...'everyones name is automatically written in the book of life'
    Add to that your favorite preacher saying it then it must be right

    The only times blotting out names is mentioned in CONTEXT is to saved Israelites and christian believers in Rev


    Man is FALLEN and under a curse so how can their names be written in the book of life....The Book of Romans describes the condition of fallen man


    People get annoyed when you bring up scripture and no longer want to discuss as they have their pet theories established in their belief structure
    I have to respond.

    You telling me that little babies names are not written in the Book of Life?

    What about children's guardian angels?

    Does their name get blotted out at the age of accountability and then they also they lose their guardian angels?

    Isn't it God's will that all be saved?

    Why then wouldn't everyone's name be in the book from before the foundation of the world?
    Revelation 17:8
    The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


    Questions.
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

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  5. #14
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    I have to respond.

    You telling me that little babies names are not written in the Book of Life?

    What about children's guardian angels?

    Does their name get blotted out at the age of accountability and then they also they lose their guardian angels?

    Isn't it God's will that all be saved?

    Why then wouldn't everyone's name be in the book from before the foundation of the world?

    Questions.

    You are using a mixture of scripture out of context plus emotionalism to make your arguments

    The scriptures you use above do not address the actual point

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  7. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post

    You telling me that little babies names are not written in the Book of Life?

    What about children's guardian angels?

    Does their name get blotted out at the age of accountability and then they also they lose their guardian angels?

    Isn't it God's will that all be saved?

    Why then wouldn't everyone's name be in the book from before the foundation of the world?
    Revelation 17:8
    The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


    Questions.
    That's similar to what I was thinking too, most here would agree that if a baby died they would not go to hell...ergo their names would be in the Book of Life.


    *Most Book of Life posts have been split off from this thread: http://livingfaithforum.com/forum/sh...ll=1#post23303
    Last edited by krystian; 01-23-2016 at 10:46 PM. Reason: Split a thread

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  9. #16
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    The questions brought up are reasonable questions and as humans we think this way naturally but they are still based on our human emotions and understanding

    Before we begin - Ask yourself has any human been BORN RIGHTEOUS as that is a key


    3 questions asked by GIMJ

    What about children's guardian angels?

    Having guardian angels is irrelevant to whether peoples names are written in the book of life. Jesus mentioned them but what was the context. He was saying that children have guardian angels and are loved and protected.

    What about children who are aborted, killed as babies - where were their guardian angels
    What about the thousand of babies that were killed by Israel entering the promised land - where were their guardian angels

    The argument becomes meaningless in addressing whether babies names are written in the book of Life - it is conjecture

    Every person including sinners have been assigned a guardian angel but do all these sinners all become believers - NO
    Guardian angels protect sinners so they can hear the gospel and get saved. But we all know man can harden his heart and reject so why does God give sinners a guardian angel.

    There isn't a scripture that says all babies are saved - there are some believers that don't accept babies are saved.
    On what basis do we presume all babies or children are saved. We rely on Gods character of love and mercy - it is as simple as that.
    It is not based on revealed scripture that babies names are automatically in the BOL


    Does their name get blotted out at the age of accountability and then they also they lose their guardian angels?

    This again is a speculation as there are no verses to substantiate what you say. No verse says that an unsaved adult lost their guardian angel they had as a child


    Isn't it God's will that all be saved?

    God's will is all saved but we know all are not saved

    Roamns teches tha tthe whole world is condemned under wrath and judgement whcoh includes all babies and children
    Everyone is therefore not named in the BOL

    Once a person receives Jesus he eats of the Tree of Life and their name is then written in the BOL

    Babies and children die who are not accountable so we assume that God in his MERCY writes their name in the BOL at their death. Due only to his mercy not because they were automatically righteous at birth

    NO ONE IS BORN RIGHTEOUS -----not even babies

  10. #17
    Administrator fuego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    NO ONE IS BORN RIGHTEOUS -----not even babies
    I don't believe it's His mercy at all per se. Babies are born innocent and their spirits are alive to God, then at the age they sin with knowledge (accountability) then they die spiritually (Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died). So when a baby dies in innocence and their spirit alive to God, obviously they go to heaven.

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  12. #18
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Innocence is not righteous, you can only be righteous by the blood

    A babies spirit is not alive to God in the sense of righteousness and being born again. Every human is born with an unregenerate spirit

    Psa 58:3 -The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies


    Pro 22:15 - Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of correction will drive it far from him

    The carnal unredeemed nature of man is already in the heart of a child. The circumstances of life as a baby grows into maturity ends up revealing this sinful nature
    Last edited by Cardinal TT; 01-24-2016 at 05:18 AM.

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  14. #19
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I dont think anyone is guilty until they actually choose to sin. I dont know exactly when that happens and what qualifies but I was pretty sinful at the age of 7 at least. The OT talks about these in terms of those who "dont know right from wrong" implying that a personal fall like mentioned in Romans 7:9-11 hasnt happened yet. What happens when someone who has not yet sinned dies, for instance aborted babies ? The same as with the OT saints presumably. As TT points out, their natures arent as holy as God and they cant just enter heaven but this applies to all of us, we all have to be swallowed up by life to enter heaven, per 1 Cor 15.

    Does that mean that someone's name is written in the book of life until they sin ? Not necessarily. The verse from the OT is interesting though because it implies that the the new birth isnt required for being written into that book. None of the Israelites were born again and their spirits werent one with the Spirit, whether they had sinned yet or not. So this makes it possible that everyones name is in the book of life until they sin but there is no scripture that actually indicates this. It is Hagins opinion and he could be right but it is a mere detail.

    The question about what happens to babies who die before they are even born is much more interesting. Do they all end up in hell even though they have done nothing ? Except perhaps when the mother is a believer ? That violates the OT principle that everyone is to die for their own sin and not for the sins of the fathers. Does God choose which ones end up in heaven ? That is nothing more than Calvinism and of the worst kind where God elects for hell with no regard even for the matter of sin.

  15. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I don't believe it's His mercy at all per se. Babies are born innocent and their spirits are alive to God, then at the age they sin with knowledge (accountability) then they die spiritually (Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died). So when a baby dies in innocence and their spirit alive to God, obviously they go to heaven.
    Several things have to happen before they can enter heaven, not being guilty of having committed sin and therefore not having a sinful human spirit does not qualify for entry.

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