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Thread: Azazel the scapegoat

  1. #21
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    The Bible itself uses the name Azazel. It doesn't have anything to do with a fallen angel. It may be a name but more likely refers to a place of desolation and death. No sin escapes with the scapegoat. Oh, and by the way, the other goat does not provide salvation either. The only way in the Bible to achieve atonement for your premeditated sins is to go to God by faith and ask Him to forgive your sins. He has provided your atonement and there is no other. All else is written so that you can understand the revelation.
    And since when are any other books older than Job? This is well known. Let's at least get the basic facts straight when asking a divisive question.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    If the book of Enoch was written by the prophet Enoch then it predates Job and the notion of the fallen angel Azazel predates the notion of the fallen angel Satan. If the book of Enoch was compiled at the time of the captivity in Babylon then parts or all of it may be more recent than the Pentateuch and the book of Job.

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Since this was part of the sacrifice for sin God ordained I simply accept that as in the OT process, Jesus Himself first died pouring out innocent blood for the guilty and then took the sins of mankind into the depths of Hell (the desolation wilderness).
    To me all this passage does is confirm Jesus dissension into Hell 'with the sins of mankind'.
    When He was raised, that redemptive work was final and eternal.
    I derive that conclusion strictly from the scriptures..

  4. #24
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    I think in reality both could be true, a goat of departure caring the sins of mankind into the wilderness and it could equally refer to the ownership of Satan of such a one...

    This could, as noted on the other thread of JDS, confirm that Jesus was BOTH he sinless one whose blood was shed and the goat of departure for the season of time in Hell...where He was approved by God and raised on the third day..

    It seems likely to me that this aspect of atonement MUST be recognized and has, in fact, been ignored as irrelevant..what I wonder about is WHY did God NEED to have the TWO goats represent the atonement if one was sufficient? The article said the scapegoat was not a sacrifice, well that's fair...but it WAS significant to atonement.

    Ranting thought as I have no time to research....Was the blood taken into the Most Holy Place before or after the goat was sent into desolation...?

  5. #25
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    According to Hebrews 13, Jesus came under the curse when he was sacrificed outside the city gates, just like sacrificial animals were burned outside the camp. The scapegoat was also sent outside the camp (and possibly slaughtered there) but I'm not sure if that is the same thing.

    Heb 13:11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp.
    12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    The scapegoat was also sent outside the camp (and possibly slaughtered there)
    According to Lev 16:21-22 the goat was freed rather than slain; just the opposite of what happened to Christ.

    ===================================

  7. #27
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Jewish tradition has it that they did something more but scripture is silent on this.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Small error above. Jesus was outside the city gates when He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane and accepted the "Cup." That is, He accepted the sins of mankind at that time and from there forward carried that impossible burden until His death on the cross. It was finished when He died and said it was finished. As a side note: the prayer in the garden was prayed approximately in the same location that the scapegoat finished its task. Jesus accepted the real role of the scapegoat in the place where the symbolic scapegoat finished it's symbolic role. Since Jesus is the "lamb slain from the foundation of the earth" His sacrifice was already valid and active when only the symbol was known. As I have said before, there has never been a different means of salvation. It has always been, "Salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus on the Cross."

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  10. #29
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    You mean the same location as at the time of Jesus ? Originally they would send it from the camp and out into the desert.

  11. #30
    Senior Member Tehilah Ba'Aretz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    You mean the same location as at the time of Jesus ? Originally they would send it from the camp and out into the desert.
    According to the rabbinic writings, the scapegoat was finished with the sacrifice when it's feet touched the Mount of Olives. It was then herded or driven out into the wilderness, never to return. Some sources suggest that it was led to a cliff and allowed to fall or pushed off the cliff. Goats don't really fall off cliffs though and it is doubted that the goat was pushed off. More likely, the goat was taken far enough away that it would not easily return but would rather either become food for a wild animal or become part of a shepherd's flock.

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