Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 64

Thread: the true WOF doctrine....

  1. #11
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    Wheeze, the reason for your "Black Friday" was due to the fact that Price refused to endorse the Calvinism that was beginning to spread at ORU. One of your people there lost a wife and wanted Price to endorse the idea that it is God's will for people to die young. I was told this by a couple of people who were there at the time.

    Many of you ORU students obviously did not have good history teachers. Have you ever read the books of Andrew Murray and A. B. Simpson? Hagin did. Smith wiggles worth? Hagin did. Cornelius Nuzum? Hagin did. Hagin was theologically influenced by multiple sources. You folks who attack the WoF always want to make this false Kenyon connection via D. R. McConnell, a thesis that was proven false by some of his own contemporaries.

    Common Wheeze, if you want to deal with the WoF then get the facts straight or resist the urge to type anything about it.

    Now let's go get some hot chocolate and marshmallows and enjoy the snow together
    It seems to me that Hagin often used excerpts from Kenyon books to later describe or word his own revelations, including his deathbed revelation in 1934. The preachers of that time often borrowed from each other but Hagin was good at using Kenyon, therefore he has become affiliated with Kenyon to a large degree.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    7,640
    Thanked: 5995
    Blog Entries
    2
    Wheeze
    What happened to your Greek teacher?

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    It seems to me that Hagin often used excerpts from Kenyon books to later describe or word his own revelations, including his deathbed revelation in 1934. The preachers of that time often borrowed from each other but Hagin was good at using Kenyon, therefore he has become affiliated with Kenyon to a large degree.
    Non one denies that Hagin borrowed from Kenyon. However, Hagin did not "sythesize" (a word the WoF critics love to use) Kenyon no where near as much as many people pretend. I have aseveral shelves containing Kenyon and Hagin books. I have a book by Hagin that has helped me more than most which is "How to be Led by the Spirit." I see nothing in there in which the revelation Jesus gave him was borrowed from Kenyon. I have another book titled "What to do when faith is Weak and Victory Lost." He gives credit to Finis Dake for the complete outline to which he added the meat. "The Believer's Authoity" which is one of his more popular books was influenced by J. A. MacMillan, a Christian and MIssionary Alliance Minister. Nothing of Kenyon in this book.

    Perhaps a couple of his small books on faith may have some "Kenyonism" in it. His "Zoe: The God Kind of Life" may have some Kenyonism in it, and his book, "The Name of Jesus" contains direct quotes from Kenyon. However, Hagin has books on tongues. Kenyon was not Pentecostal and was quite critical of tongues, basically referring to them as a "crutch". Hagin has a book on "Visions" that is not in anyway influenced by Kenyon. Hagin has a book on Intercessory Prayer that seems more influenced by Andrew Murray's teachings than anyone else (and I was an avid reader of Andrew Murray so I know what I am talking about).

    In the tapes I have listened to Hagin speaks more of Smith Wigglesworth, Lilllian B. Yeomans, A. B. Simpson, P. C. Nelson, Raymond T. Ritchie, The Goodrich's and many other PENTECOSTALS as having an influence on him. This myth that Hagin's "revelations" were all borrowed or even predominantly borrowed from Kenyon is nothing but that... a MYTH!

    Finally, Kenyon said very, very little on the subject of financial prosperity. Therefore, if Kenyon is supposedly the "father" of modern day WoF, then why do so many critics focus more on the prosperity side of the teaching and then blame Kenyon for starting the movement?
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to victoryword For This Useful Post:

    BAP (01-05-2016), GodismyJudge (01-05-2016), Quest (01-05-2016), Valiant Woman (01-14-2016)

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    Non one denies that Hagin borrowed from Kenyon. However, Hagin did not "sythesize" (a word the WoF critics love to use) Kenyon no where near as much as many people pretend. I have aseveral shelves containing Kenyon and Hagin books. I have a book by Hagin that has helped me more than most which is "How to be Led by the Spirit." I see nothing in there in which the revelation Jesus gave him was borrowed from Kenyon. I have another book titled "What to do when faith is Weak and Victory Lost." He gives credit to Finis Dake for the complete outline to which he added the meat. "The Believer's Authoity" which is one of his more popular books was influenced by J. A. MacMillan, a Christian and MIssionary Alliance Minister. Nothing of Kenyon in this book.

    Perhaps a couple of his small books on faith may have some "Kenyonism" in it. His "Zoe: The God Kind of Life" may have some Kenyonism in it, and his book, "The Name of Jesus" contains direct quotes from Kenyon. However, Hagin has books on tongues. Kenyon was not Pentecostal and was quite critical of tongues, basically referring to them as a "crutch". Hagin has a book on "Visions" that is not in anyway influenced by Kenyon. Hagin has a book on Intercessory Prayer that seems more influenced by Andrew Murray's teachings than anyone else (and I was an avid reader of Andrew Murray so I know what I am talking about).

    In the tapes I have listened to Hagin speaks more of Smith Wigglesworth, Lilllian B. Yeomans, A. B. Simpson, P. C. Nelson, Raymond T. Ritchie, The Goodrich's and many other PENTECOSTALS as having an influence on him. This myth that Hagin's "revelations" were all borrowed or even predominantly borrowed from Kenyon is nothing but that... a MYTH!

    Finally, Kenyon said very, very little on the subject of financial prosperity. Therefore, if Kenyon is supposedly the "father" of modern day WoF, then why do so many critics focus more on the prosperity side of the teaching and then blame Kenyon for starting the movement?
    That was a far more accurate assessment and evaluation than just swallowing blindly what one hears via hearsay.
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to GodismyJudge For This Useful Post:

    BAP (01-05-2016), Quest (01-05-2016), Valiant Woman (01-14-2016), victoryword (01-05-2016)

  7. #15
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Kenyon had a healing ministry which suggests that he was a pseudo-Pentecostal much like John Wesley and my countryman Hans Nielsen Hauge who had a strong experience with the Holy Spirit long before the Pentecostal revival. Meaning they probably did get hold of the fullness of the Spirit but without a proper understanding of the underlying theology.

    Many of Hagin's books are not written by himself but are more or less transcripts of sermons and he apparently quoted Kenyon in many of those. According to himself, by memory. The quotes are typically not exact and could be a matter of having a good but not exact memory. He may not have been aware of the source every time either.

  8. #16
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,920
    Thanked: 3402
    Blog Entries
    2
    The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth...where two agree...WOF in it's truest form is COMMON in most denominational teaching...
    WOF is all about transformation...

    Simply put..Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and light unto my path...agree with God in word and deed and watch Him demonstrate His will and glory in and through you...

    To attempt to negate and judge any choice He chooses to use to get that done is to close the door on some facet of His will..

    If He opts to make one wealthy to prosper the gospel, that's HIS business..if He chooses to send one to the poverty ridden streets of India, that His business...

    WOF is simply acknowledging that God's word is absolute truth and that if we agree with HIM and allow Him to transform our mind to His word that we become AS HE Is in the earth..

    He warns that we can't be one way inside and speak another so to agree with the world verbally while claiming to agree with God is double minded...and unfruitful..likewise speaking the scriptures with while EMBRACING an impure heart is also double minded and also does not produce Godly fruit. But to choose to agree and align with His word in heart word and deed is the IDEAL walk and that is the heart and soul of the WOF message.

    I grew up believing that God's interaction with His people was extracurricular...it was WOF that helped me understand it to be transformational and personal and determined by my willingness to embrace His WORD as absolute truth no matter what..that true transformation of the soul (mind will and emotions) only comes when we do that..make His word final authority in all matters...

    This begins to eat away at worldly compromise, philosophies of men, and human carnal weapons...

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Quest For This Useful Post:

    Ezekiel 33 (01-05-2016), FaithfulOne (01-05-2016), victoryword (01-05-2016)

  10. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Kenyon had a healing ministry which suggests that he was a pseudo-Pentecostal much like John Wesley and my countryman Hans Nielsen Hauge who had a strong experience with the Holy Spirit long before the Pentecostal revival. Meaning they probably did get hold of the fullness of the Spirit but without a proper understanding of the underlying theology.

    Many of Hagin's books are not written by himself but are more or less transcripts of sermons and he apparently quoted Kenyon in many of those. According to himself, by memory. The quotes are typically not exact and could be a matter of having a good but not exact memory. He may not have been aware of the source every time either.
    Colonel

    Stop mixing facts with fiction. True Hagin's books were predominantly transcribed from his sermons. True that some of his teachings were influenced by Kenyon. FALSE that he "quoted" Kenyon as extensively as you make it sound. I have listened to numerous tapes by Hagin in the 80s and 90s and I have read most of Kenyon's books. Hagin did NOT quote Kenyon all that much is you and Hagin's critics like to claim.

    Again, no one denies that Kenyon had some ifluence on Hagin. Kenyon had some influence on ME. But I have been influenced by numerous other preachers. So was Hagin. Stop making it appear as if Kenyon was the only or even PRIMARY influence on Hagin's ministry.
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to victoryword For This Useful Post:

    BAP (01-05-2016), Valiant Woman (01-14-2016)

  12. #18
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ashville, Alabama
    Posts
    5,920
    Thanked: 3402
    Blog Entries
    2
    Where I personally derailed with WOF and believe others did as well was reaching the conclusion that mastery of the scriptures was the source of the power and manifestation of the Holy Spirit...somehow I shifted from following the Holy Spirit to trying to lead Him..something He dubbed 'scriptural idolatry' and later I found a paragraph in one of Hagen's books warning of that exact same thing...
    I have since lost that excerpt in some of my notes..would love to find it again because I believe it speaks well to this thread..

    Bro Hagen warned against the very thing being stated as WOF doctrine in the OP...essentially he said it was easy to make the shift from the scriptures revealing God to believing the scriptures ARE God...I read his quote quite a while (probably 2 years or more) after God got my attention.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Quest For This Useful Post:

    FaithfulOne (01-05-2016)

  14. #19
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    14,487
    Thanked: 5793
    Quote Originally Posted by victoryword View Post
    Colonel

    Stop mixing facts with fiction. True Hagin's books were predominantly transcribed from his sermons. True that some of his teachings were influenced by Kenyon. FALSE that he "quoted" Kenyon as extensively as you make it sound. I have listened to numerous tapes by Hagin in the 80s and 90s and I have read most of Kenyon's books. Hagin did NOT quote Kenyon all that much is you and Hagin's critics like to claim.

    Again, no one denies that Kenyon had some ifluence on Hagin. Kenyon had some influence on ME. But I have been influenced by numerous other preachers. So was Hagin. Stop making it appear as if Kenyon was the only or even PRIMARY influence on Hagin's ministry.
    I'm not trying to make anything look like anything, you are imagining things. To the contrary, I stated that Hagin quoted Kenyon sufficiently that he has become affiliated with him to a large degree, that doesn't mean that that reflects the truth, it only means that he didn't quote other preachers that he was influenced by to the same degree.

  15. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I'm not trying to make anything look like anything, you are imagining things. To the contrary, I stated that Hagin quoted Kenyon sufficiently that he has become affiliated with him to a large degree, that doesn't mean that that reflects the truth, it only means that he didn't quote other preachers that he was influenced by to the same degree.
    Still disagree with you whether you use the words "sufficiently" or "predemonantly" (a word you used in an earlier post). I listened to a lot of Hagin's stuff. I had many of his teaching series. I just don't remember hearing as much of Kenyon in his teaching as you claim that is over and above any other influences in his life. I read most of Kenyon's books and was blessed by Kenyon so I certainly am not attempting to downplay anything. I just simply do not see Kenyon as the all "sufficient" or "predeominant" influence as so many purport.

    Seriously, how much of Hagin's teachings have you listened to?
    Christ's Victory Bible Teaching Center
    Web site: http://www.cvbibleteachingcenter.org


    Vindicating God Ministries
    (A Unique New Bible Teaching Ministry)
    Web site: http://www.vindicatinggod.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/vindicatinggod
    Gab: https://gab.com/victoriousword
    Minds: https://www.minds.com/victoriousword/
    MeWe: https://mewe.com/i/troyedwards15

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to victoryword For This Useful Post:

    BAP (01-05-2016), Valiant Woman (01-14-2016)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Has your Honda Civic warranty expired? Get a fast online quote from CarWarrantyUS today. Enjoy the open road and leave the repairs to us.